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Old 02-13-2013, 12:06 PM   #106
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We all measure our battery use time differently. We all have different battery units. We all have different ways of using our Kindles. Thus, there are no real tests we can apply to others.

I've read elsewhere on the internet that all Lithium batteries should be expended to zero on the first use to calibrate the meter icon and get all the chemicals stirred up. I've also read that after 3 years all Lithium batteries operate at only 80% of initial capacity. In addition, I've read that after 500 charges most Lithium batteries will be fully expended.

For my own special uses I've run tests on the PW showing 10 hours of use with WiFi on and 12 hours of use with WiFi off. My KFHD7-32 measured by Gsam as the Screen Time right before a charge shows between 5 and 6 hours with WiFi on only for syncing and upgrading apps at the 14% leve over 7 to 8 days. My PW gets between 11 and 16 days with WiFi on only for syncing. My KK gets between 30 and 38 days.

For me in the end I'll be dumping them all as soon as Amazon introduces the next generation which will probably be long before I notice any battery deterioration.

I've read that the LI batteries we use now are 2D. Supposedly, later this year or next year 3D LI batteries will be out with ten times the 2D's capacity and 1/5th of the size. Of course that is all speculation right now.

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Old 02-13-2013, 03:15 PM   #107
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The problem with Li batteries is that they are multiple cells.
Some cells may be in a better state than others.
When a cell gets to a too low voltage, previously, the other cells would try to 'negatively' charge this cell; resulting in the cell exploding or leaking or expanding and breaking.
Nowadays there are BMS controllers, (Battery monitoring systems), that will cut off bad cells, before they cause any damage.

If for instance, 4 of 5 cells show 80% charge, and one shows 40% charge, and you keep on using the battery, without charging it, the bad cell may go downto a point of no return, where either the BMS will disable it, or it'll take forever to rebuild that cell to pump back some energy in it.
A broken cell will never attain the same charge levels as before, even after charging it for a long time.

Most of these issues happen when batteries are completely depleted.
It's better to have an inaccurate battery meter, and charge your battery to full, than have an accurate meter, and destroy the lifetime of the cells.
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:49 AM   #108
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I've read elsewhere on the internet that all Lithium batteries should be expended to zero on the first use to calibrate the meter icon and get all the chemicals stirred up.
"Get all the chemicals stirred up"? I don't mean to be impolite, but this is utter nonsense. You should never, ever, take a lithium battery down to zero charge. If you do, it will be dead. Luckily, the circuitry in devices which use such batteries will prevent you from doing so.

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I've also read that after 3 years all Lithium batteries operate at only 80% of I've read that the LI batteries we use now are 2D. Supposedly, later this year or next year 3D LI batteries will be out with ten times the 2D's capacity and 1/5th of the size.
You keep saying this, but I haven't heard it anywhere else. Do you have a link to support what you're claiming, please?
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:27 AM   #109
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Li-Ion batteries are made to be used. There is just one thing you need to keep in mind:

"Avoid the extremes."

Don't utterly deplete it. Don't keep it fully charged all the time. Don't make it extremely hot or cold. Don't knock it or drop it (because cells may break). If you have to store it, charge it moderately (halfway: it's not for nothing most devices come half charged) and keep it at a moderate temperature.

For all the rest: just use it. For these batteries, it doesn't matter when you charge them or to what point. 15 to 100%, 25 to 73%... It doesn't matter. These batteries are made to handle that. The only bad characteristic is that they *will* lose power over time. If you subject the battery to the mentioned extremes, it'll go faster.

I don't worry about this. By the time the battery becomes so bad that it's unusable (less than 2-3 days of power), then my Kindle PW will be 6-7 years old. Maybe older. That's old enough to try a cheap battery replacement, and if it fails, the reader can be replaced. Probably, the Kindle PW may not even be in use for that long.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:43 AM   #110
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"Get all the chemicals stirred up"? I don't mean to be impolite, but this is utter nonsense. You should never, ever, take a lithium battery down to zero charge. If you do, it will be dead. Luckily, the circuitry in devices which use such batteries will prevent you from doing so.



You keep saying this, but I haven't heard it anywhere else. Do you have a link to support what you're claiming, please?
Here is one link to the 3D / 2D comparisons:

http://www.southampton.ac.uk/~ssegro...atteries.shtml

There are many more links if you google it.

Here is one link to the 80% after 3 years of use:

http://gemini-lights.com/explore/how...um-ion-battery

Here is the link recommending draining a Lithium battery to near zero and then give it a full charge:

http://www.wikihow.com/Calibrate-an-iPod-Battery

Of course, that is only for the first cycle. After that it does not matter. Plus, if you use GSam Battery Monitor on the KFHD7-32, the stock battery icon is overridden by the GSam Percentage Number Icon so calibration is unnecessary.

Actually, all this is IRRELEVANT for most of us. We buy a new Kindle EVERY YEAR so battery longevity will never be a factor at all. Thus, charge every hour or every month and it really does not matter. I have never owned a gadget more than 4 years - NEVER.

If a Kindle battery fails in the first month, just send it back to Amazon for a no questions asked replacement. Their overall warrenty is one year.

Plus, all this "logic" will be irrelevant once the new 3D batteries will be used, maybe even in the new kindles later this year. Their operation will be totally different than the 2D batteries. Its even possible that the 3D batteries will come with a numeric battery icon like the GSam one.

I'd be very curious, does anyone on this Forum use any eReader over 4 years old on a regular basis?

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Old 02-14-2013, 10:51 AM   #111
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Here is one link on the 3D / 2D comparisons:

http://www.southampton.ac.uk/~ssegro...atteries.shtml

There are many more links if you google it.
Yes, but all the links I've found are talking about research projects. There's a massive gulf between research and large-scale commercial production. It generally takes many years to happen. It seems wildly optimistic to talk about seeing such technology in commercial use this year or next year.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:11 AM   #112
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3D batteries selling NOW!

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Yes, but all the links I've found are talking about research projects. There's a massive gulf between research and large-scale commercial production. It generally takes many years to happen. It seems wildly optimistic to talk about seeing such technology in commercial use this year or next year.
Go to this link and click on any picture for 3D batteries available NOW:

http://www.google.com/search?q=3D+ba...w=1024&bih=693

I just located that page in response to your question. Now I am very confident that new Amazon Kindles available this coming October will have them. I may even buy some for other uses once Amazon starts selling them.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:13 AM   #113
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I see nothing there which is related to the type of research project that we were discussing before. But let's wait and see. Perhaps you're right and we'll see batteries with 1/5th the size and 10x the capacity in the next year - but I very, very much doubt it.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:17 AM   #114
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They are selling NOW!

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I see nothing there which is related to the type of research project that we were discussing before. But let's wait and see. Perhaps you're right and we'll see batteries with 1/5th the size and 10x the capacity in the next year - but I very, very much doubt it.
I just spotted this one on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/NEW-HTC-BG8610...s=3d+batteries

Its selling NOW.

It has 56 five star reviews to only 26 one star reviews.

This ONE 3D battery selling NOW makes me very confident the new Amazon Kindles AND, perhaps, a new Amazon Smart Phone will be using 3D batteries THIS OCTOBER.

I can hardly wait. I'm a sure customer for both.

Sorry about that link in my prior post. That was for 3D PICTURES - NOT batteries. This link is to a page where one can purchase the first 3D battery ever. It should be noted that the one star reviews show its initial defects.

I'm sure Amazon will make sure their 3D batteries overcome the initial hurdles.

Last edited by sirmaru; 02-14-2013 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Here is one good 3D battery selling now on Amazon
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:22 AM   #115
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I just spotted this one on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/NEW-HTC-BG8610...s=3d+batteries

Its selling NOW.

It has 56 five star reviews to only 26 one star reviews.
Sorry, but that's a perfectly ordinary lithium battery for a phone that just happens to be called the "HTC Evo 3D". It has nothing whatsoever to do with 3D battery technology.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:34 AM   #116
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You are CORRECT

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Sorry, but that's a perfectly ordinary lithium battery for a phone that just happens to be called the "HTC Evo 3D". It has nothing whatsoever to do with 3D battery technology.
You are correct. I was jumping too much there. Its a battery for a model labeled "3D."

Well, we can still hope that research gets into production by this October. From all the googling I've done on 3D batteries it appears the research, at least, is very far along.

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Old 02-14-2013, 11:36 AM   #117
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You are correct. I was jumping too much there. Its a bettery for a model labeled "3D."

Well, we can still hope that research gets into production by this October. From all the googling I've done on 3D batteries it appears the research, at least, is very far along.
My point, though, is that it typically takes 5-10 years for something like this to go from the research lab to the consumer. Honestly, I'm afraid you're being wildly optimistic in expecting anything to appear in stores in the next year, or even the next few years, but let's wait and see.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:46 AM   #118
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Some 3D progress here.

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My point, though, is that it typically takes 5-10 years for something like this to go from the research lab to the consumer. Honestly, I'm afraid you're being wildly optimistic in expecting anything to appear in stores in the next year, or even the next few years, but let's wait and see.
See this link:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1...er-than-normal

"A group of Korean scientists, working at the Ulsan National Institute of Science and Technology (UNIST), have developed a fast-charge lithium-ion battery that can be recharged 30 to 120 times faster than conventional li-ion batteries. The team believes it can build a battery pack for electric vehicles that can be fully charged in less than a minute."

Of course, that's for cars - not Kindles. I can see car manufacturers jumping on that one if those Korean scientists can deliver a production model.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:52 AM   #119
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Again, I'm sorry to repeat myself, but there's a massive gulf between the research lab and the shelf of the local store. Look at all the promised devices in the reading world which have failed to make that transition - Plastic Logic is an excellent example.

I'm not doubting the fact that there's a lot of exciting research going on in this area, but you need to realise that research does not always translate into commercially viable products, and even when it does, the process generally takes many, many years.

I honestly wouldn't get my hopes up of seeing a Kindle with new battery technology this October, next October, or even the October after that. You're going to be disappointed if you do.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:44 PM   #120
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New 3D battery company

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Again, I'm sorry to repeat myself, but there's a massive gulf between the research lab and the shelf of the local store. Look at all the promised devices in the reading world which have failed to make that transition - Plastic Logic is an excellent example.

I'm not doubting the fact that there's a lot of exciting research going on in this area, but you need to realise that research does not always translate into commercially viable products, and even when it does, the process generally takes many, many years.

I honestly wouldn't get my hopes up of seeing a Kindle with new battery technology this October, next October, or even the October after that. You're going to be disappointed if you do.
See this link:

http://prieto.everyperspective.com/a.../our-strategy/

Its a new startup company specializing in 3D batteries. It seems exciting to me. From that link: "Today, we are on the threshold of a major breakthrough. As a result of years of research, experimentation, and perseverance, we believe the Prieto Battery will be commercialized within the next several years."

By the way, batteries are just part of the new innovations right around the corner for Kindles. Just compare my present PW and KFHD7-32 to my old Sony PRS-505 of several years ago and its like night and day. I couldn't even give that one away to anyone I knew. So I was forced to donate it to the local public library.

I expect Amazon will have glorious new eReaders and maybe a Smart Phone for our enjoyment this October making our present Kindles look like totally obsolete models. Even batteries will improve without 3D. Just compare our present Lithium batteries today to the ones available just 6 years ago. Everything improves by leaps and bounds.

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