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Old 10-05-2012, 12:52 PM   #91
kiwidude
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@mmat1 - much of Sigil *depends* on well formed xml. You can't enter book view. You can't merge. You can't split. You can't reliably determine cursor location. You can't parse the html for various features that rely on it.

And worst of all *if* the user does not have Tidy turned completely off, it *will* screw up your document in it's attempt to help. Pretty Print will "guess" where closing tags should be or what tags to remove. Tidy will make an even bigger mess of your HTML. You will lose content, users complain when they notice. Just because you didn't notice any issue with turning the check off, doesn't mean that (a) an issue didn't happen, or (b) that you just happened to get exceptionally lucky.

Sigil is based on an assumption that your starting input ePub is valid - if it isn't your input can get corrupted before you even see it on screen. When you ask Sigil to save to disk, with at least Pretty Print on it will make sure what is saved is well formed. With the check throwing a message in your face you at least have a chance to make sure that it becomes valid as *you* want it to be, and not letting Sigil possibly make a meal of it.

So the option to turn it off is not coming back.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:53 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meme View Post
Replace All does not use the direction setting. It replaces everything in the file 'downwards' one after the other.
It replaces everything in the file, both above and below the current position. Which could be both desirable and undesirable. There are situations where one would like to replace all occurrances of something below the current position, but not above.

E.g. when I create a book from an OCRed html file from Abbyy or Omnipage. I start from the top to manually format the book and works my way towards the end. When I find an error and want to replace all occurrences of it, I don't want the search to mess with the parts that I allready have formated and are happy with. I would like to replace all occurrences below my current position, so that I know that the only parts of the file that's affected are the parts I have not yet proofread (I often do proofreading and formating at the same time) and that the operation has not made it neccessary to re-proof the entire file in case I messed up somewhere.

Edit: I use Notepad++ a lot for manually editing of HTML files, and notepad++ honours the direction for replace all. It has three directions: "Up", "Down" and "Continuous" where the latter searches untill there are no occurrences left. WOuld it be possible to make something similar in Sigil?

Last edited by Iznogood; 10-05-2012 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:57 PM   #93
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In an ideal world, you will have saved only 5 minutes ago, so you aren't missing much. In my world, everything is going along great and so I just keep going for half an hour or an hour and then do a massively stupid search and replace. Then it is time to go to work.

I too vote for the option to save in its screwed up state so it can be repaired later.

As for Norway's suggestion, I have been in the exact same stage as he and looping back around adds a second and undesired connection. Notepad ++ I believe finishes to the bottom, then throws a dialog box, saying done search to the bottom, continue from the top? That would be useful for me. It is possible to do it by hand, but much more time consuming.

Last edited by mrmikel; 10-05-2012 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:05 PM   #94
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If the option to turn off well-formed correction will not come back, then maybe introduce auto save to save us from ourselves.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:10 PM   #95
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I don't think the problem is as simple as allowing the user to save and close in an error state. Too much about the way Sigil works is predicated on xhtml being in a well formed state to allow a user to save/close in an error state.

If, for instance, you were allowed to save and close with malformed xhtml, Sigil is still going to try and fix it (best as it knows how) the next time you open it. That's what it does with badly formed epubs. So then they'd need to make allowances for Sigil to be able to open malformed ePubs without attempting to fix them. That would be a recipe for disaster in my opinion. So as much as I'd love, on occasion, to be able to just save/close—error or no error—and go to bed. I've come to understand exactly what kind of nightmare that would be to implement without introducing a gazillion other potential bug-type/unstable situations in the process. I truly believe you'd have to rip Sigil's guts completely out and start from scratch to accomplish what you'd like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikel
If the option to turn off well-formed correction will not come back
There never has been an option in any official release to turn it completely off, to my knowledge.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 10-05-2012 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:16 PM   #96
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In the cases where I really need Sigil to save whatever work, in whatever state, I usually comment out the entire file (all parts that are not proof-read and well-formed) and save the ordinary way

Last edited by Iznogood; 10-05-2012 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikel View Post
If the option to turn off well-formed correction will not come back, then maybe introduce auto save to save us from ourselves.
Yeah, I know user_none has some ideas about this. They won't happen for the 0.6 release. But longer term, certainly. It should be possible to "undo" a Replace All operation for instance or roll back to some checkpoint be it time based or whatever. A simple "auto save" is not going to be enough - what if you screwed up half an hour ago and only just noticed? What if you keep Sigil open overnight, is it going to fill your hard disk with a new copy of the file every five minutes? It is a solvable problem, but not one that is trivial to implement.

As I've tried to explain above and diapdealer has mentioned, there are just too many parts of Sigil that depend on well formed xhtml. The Xerces component chokes on invalid html very badly - it is one of the causes of a number of the crashes that have plagued Sigil in the past.

In the meantime, treat Sigil like you would pretty much any other editor - if you are about to do something "dodgy", save first. You can also use the new Save A Copy feature in order not to overwrite your starting ePub, just to be sure you don't overwrite with some invalid changes you haven't noticed yet...
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:32 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norway1456 View Post
A tick box (or similar) to automatically advance to the next occurrance of the search pattern (or not to advance to the next occurrance, depending on what should be the default/standard behaviour) would be wonderful. Eventually, it could be a setting under Preferences or similar, since (as you say) this is not something that is often used.
Don't worry, the next beta has the "Replace but don't move" request taken care of
Quote:
By the way: the new Sigil is terriffic. Well done! But there is some behaviour that I don't understand. Perhaps a bug?

1. Open sigil. Turn tidy completely off
2. Tools -> Table of contents -> Generate table of contents
3. Press OK

This is mmy code before I generate table of contents:
Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
</body>
</html>
And this is after:
Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no" ?><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd"><html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<title/>
</head>
<body>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
</body>
</html>
I know that it is very irratic of the user to generate an epub with an empty html file, but the point is: why does a generation of ToC alter the source files?
Interesting, I see that too. To answer your question, Generate ToC will insert anchor identifiers and potentitally modify heading tags, so that is why (in general) files will get modified.

However in this particular case your file being blank means that really it shouldn't have been touched, since it doesn't have a heading tag on it. Sounds like an optimisation we could make, we will take a look into it. Thanks for the report.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:39 PM   #99
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Something that struck me just now: Keyboard shortcuts accessibility on international keyboards. On English keyboards (I guess) things like Ctrl+] makes sense, but they can never work with my Norwegian layout. Most of these special characters will initially need a modifier to even be entered, and they don't work as shortcuts at all.

Special characters should be avoided as shortcuts, only alphanumeric characters should be used.

I realise that this might be an awkward issue as a lot of users are used to the defaults, and Sigil can't assign multiple shortcuts to the same action. Also, we poor people in non-ascii-land have lived with these issues since the beginning of computing. Still, it would be nice if Sigil could be an example that it don't need to be this way
The problem is the "rest of the world" who don't have this problem would get penalised for those who do . There simply isn't enough keys on a keyboard.

Generally Alt modifiers are not really an option, certainly not without a modifier and that makes them awkward and unmemorable. Ctrl+Shift is an RSI inducing combination that should only be used for infrequent operations. That leaves only Ctrl + 26 letters and some numbers. Ctrl + a number is already used by the headings. That leaves 26 letters. Of which by the time you take out all the standard things like cut, copy, paste etc there isn't all that many left.

So I'm afraid that suggesting you assign your own personal shortcuts is really the only option, without us moving a number of things onto keys that are either awkward or not memorable for the (majority?) of users that do have US/english keyboards? You are able to do that right?
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:00 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwidude View Post
Don't worry, the next beta has the "Replace but don't move" request taken care of
You guys rocks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwidude View Post
Interesting, I see that too. To answer your question, Generate ToC will insert anchor identifiers and potentitally modify heading tags, so that is why (in general) files will get modified.

However in this particular case your file being blank means that really it shouldn't have been touched, since it doesn't have a heading tag on it. Sounds like an optimisation we could make, we will take a look into it. Thanks for the report.
"modify header tags" in what way? Just adding an ID, or inserting links to stylesheets and such, or more advanced modifications?

It seems that the xml declaration, doctype and html tag always ends up on the same line, whatever I do in sigil. Would it be possible to keep the orignal line and indentation formatting in the headers and the declarations above the html tag when ToC Generation finds that it needs to format something?
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:00 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwidude View Post

So I'm afraid that suggesting you assign your own personal shortcuts is really the only option, without us moving a number of things onto keys that are either awkward or not memorable for the (majority?) of users that do have US/english keyboards? You are able to do that right?
Is the storage location of these assignments accessible? Could it be you could save as a separate and installable file a whole version of shortcuts customized for a particular keyboard? That way some one person could be a trailblazer and others could install his shortcuts.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:28 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
I don't think the problem is as simple as allowing the user to save and close in an error state. Too much about the way Sigil works is predicated on xhtml being in a well formed state to allow a user to save/close in an error state.

If, for instance, you were allowed to save and close with malformed xhtml, Sigil is still going to try and fix it (best as it knows how) the next time you open it. That's what it does with badly formed epubs. So then they'd need to make allowances for Sigil to be able to open malformed ePubs without attempting to fix them. That would be a recipe for disaster in my opinion. So as much as I'd love, on occasion, to be able to just save/close—error or no error—and go to bed. I've come to understand exactly what kind of nightmare that would be to implement without introducing a gazillion other potential bug-type/unstable situations in the process. I truly believe you'd have to rip Sigil's guts completely out and start from scratch to accomplish what you'd like.


There never has been an option in any official release to turn it completely off, to my knowledge.
That is a Good point, for a normal start

Maybe we need a way to resume a saved workspace 'state', similar to some crash/abend recoveries . Zip the state up to allow it to be transferred to another system.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:39 PM   #103
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Is the storage location of these assignments accessible? Could it be you could save as a separate and installable file a whole version of shortcuts customized for a particular keyboard? That way some one person could be a trailblazer and others could install his shortcuts.
Right now the shortcuts are stored in the sigil.ini file, along with all your other settings.

There are two things we "could" do. One would be to save them in a separate file. It is an approach we have decided on for some other Sigil features for the next beta. So you could just copy that file to another machine into the relevant directoy.

The other option would be to add an Import and Export capability to the Keyboard Preferences screen.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:44 PM   #104
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"modify header tags" in what way? Just adding an ID, or inserting links to stylesheets and such, or more advanced modifications?

It seems that the xml declaration, doctype and html tag always ends up on the same line, whatever I do in sigil. Would it be possible to keep the orignal line and indentation formatting in the headers and the declarations above the html tag when ToC Generation finds that it needs to format something?
By header tags I meant <h1> etc. And what extent of modification depends on what you did. In the latest versions in the Generate ToC dialog you can adjust the level left and right (making that h1 an h2 for instance). You can also edit the text to appear in the Toc, which will add/modify a "title" attribute on the heading tag. And of course it will ensure the heading has an id tag on it for the xref to work.

As I said I will have a look at what is possible. I'm guessing without looking at the code that the html is being converted into a Xerces document and then spat back out again, so the formatting is at the mercy of what Xerces decides to do with it (potentially mangling any formatting that was there originally). Which is why the likes of the Pretty Print option is popular to turn it into something more viewable on screen. However it is perfectly understandable why some users like yourself try to keep Tidy off completely so Pretty Print isn't a desired option. We shall see what can be done if anything...
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:02 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norway1456 View Post
...Edit: I use Notepad++ a lot for manually editing of HTML files, and notepad++ honours the direction for replace all. It has three directions: "Up", "Down" and "Continuous" where the latter searches untill there are no occurrences left. WOuld it be possible to make something similar in Sigil?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikel View Post
As for Norway's suggestion, I have been in the exact same stage as he and looping back around adds a second and undesired connection. Notepad ++ I believe finishes to the bottom, then throws a dialog box, saying done search to the bottom, continue from the top? That would be useful for me. It is possible to do it by hand, but much more time consuming.
We have put it on the list to think about. As I mentioned earlier on this thread there are 1,000+ different Find/Replace dialog implementations out there all having their own little features and quirks. We have pushed the boat out already for the next release in the F&R dialog as you will see next week. I am concerned for the mooring rope if we push it further - we do want to get the actual 0.6 release out at some point .
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