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Old 09-21-2012, 06:55 AM   #31
JoeD
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My main gripe with windows phone is that after using a nokia lumia 800 for a few months, a device that was much better hw spec wise than my old 3gs, I just didn't like the interface. Performance wise it was great, but UI wise I hated it.

Windows phone 8 looks like more of the same UI wise as does Windows 8 for the desktop, both of which I plan to avoid as long as I can.

Reviews appear to be quite mixed though. Some love the new UI, others detest it. Either way I think we're all stuck with it for the foreseeable future, at least those who have to use windows will be once win 7 support is dropped (which thankfully shouldn't be for some time)
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:22 AM   #32
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Considering that Windows XP support is only scheduled to end in April of 2014, support for Windows 7 will likely exist until 2022 or so. At which time I think I'll probably have moved on.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:27 AM   #33
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Lighten up please. all for fun.

Gawd, you really do need to get a life.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:28 AM   #34
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:09 PM   #35
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Gawd, you really do need to get a life.
Would anybody be here if they had a life?
Or at least cats?
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:38 PM   #36
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Would anybody be here if they had a life?
Or at least cats?
Define life. I've got two figments of my imagination and a rock with eyes painted on that are demanding to be recognized.

I do agree that the difference between an iOS or Android app and an MS one is a lot of bloat. Some of it comes from legacy code that was never replaced (or possibly never optimized to begin with), some of it is comes from features that people don't regularly use and could be relegated to plugin status, and then there's always the hidden game of DOOM in Excel '95 that might still be in the codebase.

I guess its like the difference between early and late GUIs. Early GUIs like original MacOS and GEOS were written for small memory spaces, sometimes no more than 64 or 128k, and had to not only provide a full UI but also run at least one app. A "modern" GUI needs at least 512 megs of memory, really prefers 2+ gigs, and finds ways to fill up anything beyond that.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:16 PM   #37
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On the other hand, the MS product is usually a big system, not a little bite sized app which is one reason Android and iOS do well. They are little bite sized morsels that kids can digest along with their bottle.
Kids like these, maybe?

http://www.cultofmac.com/182894/nasa...rover-to-mars/
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:25 PM   #38
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We obviously have to experience ourselves, how Windows 8 will behave in "real life".
Still: It's certainly not hard to beat iOS or Android. They are phantastic for gadgets. Great little toys, my favorite travel companions.
I can check my email, book a hotel, watch a movie, read a book and such on them.
But I wouldn't even bother to call them "business machines" or "professional systems" or something like that.
iOS, re. file system, to me is a disaster.
On Windows, I drop my file to the desktop or wherever I please. Then I open it in whatever application I choose. I easily can have 5 apps active in parallel.
On iOS, even just handling a file is a pain.
Android is slightly ahead, at least I can use some kind of file explorers.

But anyone explain to me:
How can I write a mail, browse the web and download stuff in parallel on the existing tablets?
I perfectly could do so on my 3 years old Fujitsu Stylistic ST6012 Windows 7 tablet (Windows XP in the beginning). Although, I have to admit, I didn't take it with me on more than 2 or 3 trips. It was as bulky as a laptop, way bulkier than my MacBook Air for example.

So, from a business perspective, iOS and Android will be easy to beat.
Question is, whether a business oriented tablet will have any advantages over ultra-compact notebooks such as MacBook Air.
When traveling, I almost see no difference between iPad and MacBook Air for example.
Okay, iPad will start slightly faster. And of course, sometimes it's easier and more convenient, to hold a tablet in a single hand instead of finding a place to put your notebook. But basically, battery duration, weight and measurements are quite similar.

To summarise:
For me, any Windows tablet doesn't compete with the existing tablets.
Different usage patterns, different target customers, different approach.
In my opinion, Windows tablets compete with notebooks and convertibles.
And here it all will depend on performance, battery duration and such...

Last edited by mgmueller; 09-21-2012 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:47 PM   #39
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To summarise:
For me, any Windows tablet doesn't compete with the existing tablets.
Different usage patterns, different target customers, different approach.
In my opinion, Windows tablets compete with notebooks and convertibles.
And here it all will depend on performance, battery duration and such...
That is indeed the starting point for Surface Pro and the other x86 Win8 tablets.
But MS has a few aspirations to go a bit further into media-consumption land.
Microsoft's game plan appears to be the way they approached living room computing when Sony started bragging that the PS2 was going to do image processing, internet surfing and other home *computer* functions. First they shored up their base with the intro of Windows Media Center, and then they took the fight right to Sony's home turf with the XBOX, forcing Sony to defend *their* base--gaming--and keeping them out of computing.

Right now, job one for Win8 is to keep iPad and Android out of the corporate productivity computing space. Job two is to challenge for the academic market before Apple makes any deep inroads (that's where NewCo comes in, btw). Job three is to go after media-happy consumers.

It took a lot of money and a few tries to get the living room story where they want it but so far, it looks to be working. (With the fringe benefit that they've stymied both Apple and Android, so far.)

I wouldn't write MS off just yet in the mobile computing space.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:04 PM   #40
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I ran the Win8 preview on my desktop and hated it, but I probably would have felt the same trying to use Android or iOS on my desktop (not quite the same but you get the idea).

I really liked Windows Phone 7 (7.5) when I played around with a friend's win7 phone. Very snappy and polished. Im looking forward to seeing WinRT, but until I get one in my little hands I'll reserve judgement. Well, open judgement, at least. My internal dialog does what it does.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:09 PM   #41
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Either way I think we're all stuck with it for the foreseeable future, at least those who have to use windows will be once win 7 support is dropped (which thankfully shouldn't be for some time)
There already is Windows 8 freeware to make program launching similar to Windows 7. And, also from what I read, Windows 8 can run all the programs that Vista or Windows 7 can run, unless one is going from 32 to 64 bits. So, if you want it that way, the biggest change could be that boot time reduces by half. You don't have to go touch screen if you don't want.

My Vista computer is sometimes freezing or powering off on its own, so I figure this Fall is the time to move on. Dealnews.com is showing a $200 editor's choice Windows 7 home premium desktop with a Sandy Bridge processor (Intel's top line as of last year). Up it to 8 GB RAM for another $30 or so, and I couldn't go too far wrong except for missing out on writing a new-style app or two with Visual Studio Express 2012. Since I do like to program (and also like fast booting), I'm going to wait for Thanksgiving week to see how close I can come to this pricing in a Windows 8 box -- maybe even with this year's Ivy Bridge chip.

Now someone is going to come along and say what horrible junk this kind of entry-level PC is. But, well, actually, I bought my wife a Sandy Bridge Windows 7 PC of this sort last November, upped it to the 8 GB, and it still is, if not "vastly superior", just fine.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:57 PM   #42
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Right now, job one for Win8 is to keep iPad and Android out of the corporate productivity computing space.
Might be too late.
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Old 09-22-2012, 01:51 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by mgmueller View Post
iOS, re. file system, to me is a disaster.
On Windows, I drop my file to the desktop or wherever I please. Then I open it in whatever application I choose. I easily can have 5 apps active in parallel.
On iOS, even just handling a file is a pain.
Android is slightly ahead, at least I can use some kind of file explorers.

But anyone explain to me:
How can I write a mail, browse the web and download stuff in parallel on the existing tablets?
I perfectly could do so on my 3 years old Fujitsu Stylistic ST6012 Windows 7 tablet (Windows XP in the beginning). Although, I have to admit, I didn't take it with me on more than 2 or 3 trips. It was as bulky as a laptop, way bulkier than my MacBook Air for example.

So, from a business perspective, iOS and Android will be easy to beat.
Question is, whether a business oriented tablet will have any advantages over ultra-compact notebooks such as MacBook Air.
When traveling, I almost see no difference between iPad and MacBook Air for example.
Okay, iPad will start slightly faster. And of course, sometimes it's easier and more convenient, to hold a tablet in a single hand instead of finding a place to put your notebook. But basically, battery duration, weight and measurements are quite similar.

To summarise:
For me, any Windows tablet doesn't compete with the existing tablets.
Different usage patterns, different target customers, different approach.
In my opinion, Windows tablets compete with notebooks and convertibles.
And here it all will depend on performance, battery duration and such...

Part of the point behind iOS, is to more or less remove the user from the File System. Not a step I necessarily agree with, but then again I am a power user, and I don't want my hand held.

As far as Multitasking, I cannot really comment on iOS, but with Android, it is quite easy. Hold down the Home button to get an selection of recently used apps, and selecting one of them will take you back to where you last left off with that app. Using this, you can switch back and forth between apps with ease. I use it all the time.

In comparing a Macbook to a iPad and seeing no difference, well, I dunno about that. iPad, like most tablet devices, are full screen only apps, where as you have the flexibility of a windowed desktop operating system on the Macbook. So, you have the usability to contend with. Physically they may be similar in dimensions, but that matters little. A notebook and a pen is of similar dimensions, but doesn't mean it is just as good.

Also, for Windows 8, tablets are very different than the Windows tablets you're used to. Win8 RT is all metro, all the time. If you're not familiar with metro, it is the full screen interface that Microsoft is pushing people over on. Each app takes up 100% of the screen when it is active. No windows, period. Also, Windows RT will not run any desktop app. Have you used a recent Windows mobile device, with Windows Phone 7? Or maybe a Zune, or Xbox 360 with the current interface? Well, that's what Windows 8 RT is like. Just because it has Windows in the name, doesn't mean it is anything like what you're used to. In fact, it shares more in common with Android and iOS than its name sake.
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Old 09-22-2012, 02:50 AM   #44
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You clearly don't understand how those MacBooks are being used. Hint: you can't buy iRover software from the Mac App Store. A lot of scientific software is written with Unix systems in mind, and could readily be compiled for Linux or Solaris. Macs tend to be popular among scientists because it is based on Unix and is supported by many commercial software vendors.

Besides, it's kinda beside the point in this discussion. If you're going to compare Mac OS X to Windows 8, you may as well throw Linux into the mix too. Android is based upon the Linux kernel after all.
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Old 09-22-2012, 05:10 AM   #45
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But (sensibly) they obviously didn't entirely trust them since the opposite banks seem to be made out of Thinkpads. (or maybe it was the other way round...)
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