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Old 09-27-2012, 03:16 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by AnemicOak View Post
Phones have been used for reading ebooks (along with PDA's) long before there were such things as eInk readers or tablets.
I was reading ebooks long before there were iPhones (Ipaq)
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:44 AM   #152
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I was reading ebooks long before there were iPhones (Ipaq)
Same here

I just got rid of my trusty old HP 110 Ipaq classic
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:26 PM   #153
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Perhaps its like politics -- if you cannot contradict the persons argument or success, you attack the person. I will not be a politician.
I can understand how you feel, but those comments were upsetting.

The sight of a fellow native English speaker telling someone else to learn English before daring to argue a point is incredibly depressing. The person taking the brunt knows at least two languages. How many does the person who told them off actually know? How is ignorance compounded by intolerance something to be proud of?

Instead of jeering at someone else for not understanding my vocabulary (if indeed that's even the real issue), I try to ask myself this: How have I failed as a communicator if this listener has yet to understand me?

Writers who have no respect for the reader are often at the hub of fascinating conversations -- with themselves.

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Certainly, there are minor concerns with the new iPhone, but they seem to worry only tech enthusiasts. Vocal minority. Consumer enthusiasm and sales to regular consumers are higher than ever.
How exactly is the ability to navigate one's way through the world a point of interest only to "tech enthusiasts"? I personally have the sense of direction of a five-winged mallard. Map services would be incredibly important to me whether I were a technophile or phobe.

Apple might have the appeal and marketing ability to convince consumers that dynamic maps don't matter to people who are lost and looking for an address, but for you to say it doesn't matter to anyone but an apparently unimportant minority seems a tad dismissive.

I briefly considered picking up an iP5 instead of an android phone in December. Playing with it after demoing an X One and a Galaxy S3, I found this Apple iteration more limiting than I did the iP4. Whether that's because of changes in the current iOS or other manufacturers catching up, I really can't say. But the launch of an ill-prepared mapping service was the ultimate reason I chose not to consider buying an iP5.

Besides:

Why should it ever matter whether a majority chooses an iPhone or not, and why is the "vocal tech minority" to be discounted, as if people who didn't like a given product were an insignificant bloc of voters in an election (though theoretically there's no such thing)?

This entire forum is a place where people advocate using products that the greater public hasn't even heard of. Why is that categorically unimportant?

Selecting a phone based partly on reviews is down to the individual user's preferences, not a general election for the prettyphone of the year.

Here's to people who prefer the iPhone, and here's to people who don't. Now that that's settled, let's get back to talking about specs and users' experiences.

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Old 09-28-2012, 02:38 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze View Post
I can understand how you feel, but those comments were upsetting.

The sight of a fellow native English speaker telling someone else to learn English before they dare to comment is incredibly sad and depressing. The person taking the brunt knows at least two languages. How many does the person who told them off actually know? How is ignorance compounded by intolerance something to be proud of?

Instead of jeering at someone else for not understanding my vocabulary (if indeed that's even the real issue), I try to ask myself this: How have I failed as a communicator if this listener has yet to understand me?

Writers who have no respect for the reader are often at the hub of fascinating conversations -- with themselves.



How exactly is the ability to navigate one's way through the world a point of interest only to "tech enthusiasts"? I personally have the sense of direction of a five-winged mallard. Map services would be incredibly important to me whether I were a technophile or phobe.

Apple might have the appeal and marketing ability to convince consumers that dynamic maps don't matter to people who are lost and looking for an address, but for you to say it doesn't matter to anyone but an apparently unimportant minority seems a tad dismissive.

I briefly considered picking up an iP5 instead of an android phone in December. Playing with one after demoing an X One and a Galaxy S3, I found the Apple experience more limiting than in previous encounters with the iP4. Whether that's because of changes in the current iOS or other manufacturers' catching up, I really can't say. But the launch of an ill-prepared mapping service was the ultimate reason I chose not to consider buying an iP5.

Besides:

Why should it ever matter whether a majority chooses an iPhone or not, and why is the "vocal tech minority" to be discounted, as if people who didn't like a given product were an insignificant bloc of voters in an election (though theoretically there's no such thing)?

This entire forum is a place where people advocate using products that the greater public hasn't even heard of. Why is that categorically unimportant?

Selecting a phone based partly on reviews is down to the individual user's preferences, not a general election for the prettyphone of the year.

Here's to people who prefer the iPhone, and here's to people who don't. Now that that's settled, let's get back to talking about specs and users' experiences.
Good post, thanks
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:17 AM   #155
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In my understanding MR is a forum for ebooks and ebook reading. Now it's being inundated with threads about a phone. Relevance for ebooks? Nil.
I agree with that almost 100%. Phones some people do use phones to read on, so it might make sense for there to be *one* thread on the iPhone.

But at this moment, there are 5 or 6 threads on the News page dealing with the iPhone - I think there are 3 threads on lawsuits, one thread about the maps, this thread, one about the smartphone market generally...oh, and a closed thread on the swiss railroad clocks on the iPad. None of which, as you point out, has much to do with e-books, and really makes MR look just like any other tech site, rather than one focused on e-books.
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It does seem rather pathetic to use terms like "hater" just because people are critical of the newest gadget produced by some multinational. To use such language indicates that some people do not look at this on a very rational level.
I think it's the right word. I'm very critical of Apple's e-book deals with publishers, for example, and my sig, FWIW, is also critical of Apple. There are interesting discussion that can be had in this area by people who are interested in having discussions.

However, there are a handful of posters, often the same ones, who come into any Apple thread and post basically snarky, content-free posts sniping at Apple, Apple users,...well, really just those two. They tend not to be interested in a discussion because they simply want to bash Apple and its products and its users, mostly based on no actual information.

So I think "haters" is accurate.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:37 PM   #156
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Tim Cook's apology on Maps

http://www.apple.com/letter-from-tim-cook-on-maps/
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:14 PM   #157
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...
However, there are a handful of posters, often the same ones, who come into any Apple thread and post basically snarky, content-free posts sniping at Apple, Apple users,...well, really just those two. They tend not to be interested in a discussion because they simply want to bash Apple and its products and its users, mostly based on no actual information.

So I think "haters" is accurate.
To call people "haters" is hate.
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Old 09-29-2012, 11:39 PM   #158
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To call people "haters" is hate.
No, it is merely a generalization -- one which might or might not be hateful depending on tone and context.

People who talk about prejudice need to be very specific about the shades and nuances they're addressing. Hyperbole is the grandfather of the stereotype.

The main reason I don't use words like hater is because I try to avoid substituting cultural shorthand for my own thoughts.

Andrew:

One problem with focusing on accuracy alone is that you're leaving out the baggage of the word hater -- its history of connotations.

Besides which, it's too easily applied to everyone. Someone could easily call you an Android hater even though your position is not that simple. Anything can look like hatred if the accuser is staring at it from that particular vantage.

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Old 09-30-2012, 02:42 AM   #159
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No, it is merely a generalization -- one which might or might not be hateful depending on tone and context.

People who talk about prejudice need to be very specific about the shades and nuances they're addressing. Hyperbole is the grandfather of the stereotype.

The main reason I don't use words like hater is because I try to avoid substituting cultural shorthand for my own thoughts.

Andrew:

One problem with focusing on accuracy alone is that you're leaving out the baggage of the word hater -- its history of connotations.

Besides which, it's too easily applied to everyone. Someone could easily call you an Android hater even though your position is not that simple. Anything can look like hatred if the accuser is staring at it from that particular vantage.
Sounds like blinding rationalization and excusing to me.
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:59 AM   #160
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I was reading ebooks long before there were iPhones (Ipaq)
When I joined this forum I was reading on my Sony Clie! (which I still have - but don't use)
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:34 PM   #161
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Sounds like blinding rationalization and excusing to me.
Sounds like you're spoiling for tough-off in the middle of a polite discussion. Otherwise, you'd understand that we both dislike the same term, but that the word hater is not hate speech by any stretch.

However, your assumption about the supposedly hateful motives of people who use the word is itself uncharitable, uncalled for and unnecessary.

The Civil Rights Movement was a response to demonstrable prejudice which impacted directly on the quality of people's lives. It should not be trivialized, nor its recourse abused, by opportunists who wish to tar an innocent opponent with the broad brush of prejudice.

I'm trying to be nice, but you seem to confuse politeness for vagueness or -- not surprisingly -- congenital dishonesty, so let me spell it out for you:

The word hater is not hate speech by any definition, therefore you have no case.

You're not serving your basic point -- that the integrity of individuals who criticize Apple is no worse than those who defend it -- with this strategy. No need to make yourself look like another coming-of-age story from the heartland of Trollsville in the process of making said point.

Meanwhile, the rest of us were talking about specs and reviews.

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Old 09-30-2012, 03:50 PM   #162
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Ok, can we get some ACTUAL reviews here, instead of pissing contests?
I'd like to hear from people who have not had a smart phone before and decided to jump in with the I5.
I have a tracfone, but am seriously thinking of moving up. And I would like to know what a newbie thinks of the I5 before I put down that kind of money...
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:10 PM   #163
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I'd like to hear from people who have not had a smart phone before and decided to jump in with the I5.
I have a tracfone, but am seriously thinking of moving up. And I would like to know what a newbie thinks of the I5 before I put down that kind of money...
It sounds like you're privileging the newbie aspect for reasons you consider practical, but where's the real benefit? I can understand not wanting to put up with the factions that promote or malign Apple, but not every veteran has sworn their allegiance. Do you believe that a novice would be more objective than, say, a reviewer, or are you assuming their experience will be closer to yours because they hadn't owned such a device until recently?

I'd argue they're less likely to be a barometer simply because any smartphone is going to seem tremendous to someone who's never had the pleasure of owning one before. If I'd never used any other smartphone, I'd be thrilled and amazed by the iP5.

Which is not to say the iP5 is lacking, esp. for someone who uses it daily (versus my twenty minutes) and loves its UI and aesthetic. I'm just saying that a newbie might also be thrilled and amazed by the Motorola Photon, and that's hardly a bleeding edge phone when compared to your other options.

§§§§§§§

As to your question about hands-on experience:

The biggest selling points of the past two and a half iP iterations have been the screen and ecosystem.

When I first played with an iPhone 4, the readability of the Retina screen was such an upgrade from that of my Galaxy S (and of the original iPad) that I was tempted buy it right then. Readability is a factor that might concern you as a lover of ebooks.

Something seemed missing (and disappointing) when I played with the iP5 at the Sprint Store. To be fair, I'll try to visit an Apple Store tonight to see whether any of the standard apps or features were absent.

En ce moment, the iP4-5 and the 920 seem to be the smartphone kings of non-fatigued reading.

And now back to the reviews!

This just-posted review of the advantages and disadvantages of iOS6 seems more fair to me than its title might suggest. Before I even read it, I was thinking I might have settled for a pre-iP4S without a software update.

iOS6 Problems Kill Its Features

The same web publication offers a comparison of the Galaxy S3 and the iPhone 5, but I don't know whether or not that's been posted already, nor do I know anything about the integrity of "Dansway Communications LTD" or its founder, Daniel Chubb.

In the case of the Nokia 920 and the iPhone 5, I'm thinking that the next few months will tell us whether the features and innovations outweigh the bugs and user limitations. Android 4.1 has been vetted, but if 4.2 had just been released and were significantly different, I'd say the same thing about it.

On the maps issue, Barron's quotes Ben Reitze of Barclays Capital as saying this:

Quote:
We believe that Apple can improve its offering with software updates over time and that the issues seem more significant overseas.
Something worth considering depending on where you live. It would also be useful to know exactly where in the States the map coverage is best and worst.

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Old 09-30-2012, 04:46 PM   #164
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Do you believe that a novice would be more objective than, say, a reviewer, or are you assuming their experience will be closer to yours because they hadn't owned such a device until recently?
Not more objective, no. But their initial reaction to "new" functionalities from a smart phone would definitely be more in line with me than someone who has had a smartphone for the past 5 years.
They will also report on "problems" for them that veteran users might already know the work-around and not even bother to think about.
A veteran user will be comparing I5 to I4s or before, hence comparing specific options to each other, where as I am interested in the overall impression from jumping from a pay as you go talk/txt only phone to a full mini-computer phone.

What I WANT is an actual review from someone who has bought an I5 and is currently using it.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:14 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Ravensknight View Post
What I WANT is an actual review from someone who has bought an I5 and is currently using it.
Wish I could help you there. I've decided either to buy an Android phone like the Galaxy S3 (ideally a Nexus iteration) or wait for the 920 and Apple's fixes before making a final decision as to which of the three phones to buy.

However, my last post is both on-topic and relevant to the decision you're trying to make.

And most of the reviews I've read have been careful not to ignore user issues just because of the reviewers' proficiency with workarounds.

Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 09-30-2012 at 05:42 PM.
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