Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-08-2013, 01:49 AM   #211
Fat Abe
Man Who Stares at Books
Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Fat Abe's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,514
Karma: 9749652
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 50th State, USA. Also, PA, NY, CA, and elsewhere.
Device: All of the Above
One might say that Science Fiction is an acquired taste. The field is not as exploitative or sappy as romantic storywriting. The number of authors who have made it in SF is actually small, when you think about it. Every one of the writers in Silverberg's anthology, Science Fiction Hall of Fame, Volume One, 1929–1964, is well known to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sci...9%E2%80%931964

Certainly Asimov belongs in the same class of writers as Heinlein, del Rey, Bester, etc. Isaac may not be in the same league as Sturgeon, but, that is a matter of personal preference. Because SF does not aspire to the lofty ideals of great literature, the average fan is satisfied with a good plot and mild amusement. SF was not haute cuisine, nor was it nouvelle cuisine. That was the credo Asimov followed, and who can blame him? Was the world ready for esoteric, new wave Sci Fi when he was writing? Yes, and no. Thomas Disch was brilliant and ahead of his time. But not in a commercial sense, meaning he never raked in the big bucks like Asimov or Bradbury. Possibly, the operative word was accessible. Drift a little, but not too far afield. If China Mieville were writing in 1950, he would have been shunned. Incomprehensible, way too avant garde. Could Asimov have altered his writing style over the years? Not after he tasted fame and publicity. That would be like asking Stephen King to pen The Brothers Karamazov. Rather than critique Asimov for what he wasn't, let's just say there are many writers in the universe to read besides this one man. Asimov is neither overrated or underrated. After all, he did not get a Nobel prize, did he? Try other authors, even Doris Lessing. No comment on her. Why? Because it takes a lot of reading to tell how good or important a writer may be, in his/her lifetime.
Fat Abe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 10:10 AM   #212
HomeInMyShoes
Ginormous Intergalactic
HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HomeInMyShoes's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,208
Karma: 44490333
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: junkyard
Device: Kindle3
I don't know, I'm reading Golem100 by Alfred Bester and its plenty exploitative in a cheesy B-science fiction movie way. I have to say, I picked it for a laugh and it's been a quality selection based on that requirement.
HomeInMyShoes is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Enthusiast
Old 02-08-2013, 10:41 AM   #213
QuantumIguana
Philosopher
QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
QuantumIguana's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,874
Karma: 17022226
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by crich70 View Post
As for robots attacking people Asimov's characters speak about trying to deal with the "Frankenstein Complex" that the public seem to have about robots.
His Zeroth Law of Robotics does open the door for this. If Robots may violate the First Law if, in the Robot's opinion, it is necessary to protect humanity, then the robots could do pretty much anything, depending on their definition of harm to humanity.
QuantumIguana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 10:56 AM   #214
HomeInMyShoes
Ginormous Intergalactic
HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HomeInMyShoes's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,208
Karma: 44490333
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: junkyard
Device: Kindle3
All you need to do is redefine humanity and our kettle is cooked. It's been the premise behind a lot of stories and movies.
HomeInMyShoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 11:27 AM   #215
RDaneel54
Aging Positronic Brain
RDaneel54 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RDaneel54 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RDaneel54 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RDaneel54 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RDaneel54 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RDaneel54 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RDaneel54 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RDaneel54 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RDaneel54 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RDaneel54 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RDaneel54 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
RDaneel54's Avatar
 
Posts: 586
Karma: 2130000
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Aurora (when off-Earth)
Device: Kindle PW2, KF HD2, Voyage 3G; iPhone
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
All you need to do is redefine humanity and our kettle is cooked. It's been the premise behind a lot of stories and movies.
Wasn't that the purpose of the shibboleth used by a robot in Foundation's Edge? It's been awhile since I read that.
RDaneel54 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 11:38 AM   #216
HomeInMyShoes
Ginormous Intergalactic
HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HomeInMyShoes's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,208
Karma: 44490333
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: junkyard
Device: Kindle3
I want/need to read Asimov. One of these days. One of these days.
HomeInMyShoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 11:40 AM   #217
QuantumIguana
Philosopher
QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
QuantumIguana's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,874
Karma: 17022226
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch
There were stories where the Robots were programmed with restricted definitions of human. That affects the First Law.

Asimov compared his three laws to tools:

1) A tool must not be dangerous to its user
2) A tool must perform its function
3) A tool must be reliable

We would want an automated drill to stop if there is a person in its way, but as long as the work area is clear, we want the drill to do its job. And we want it not to break down, but that's subordinate. We might need to use the tool even if it breaks it, depending on how urgent the task is. Asimov's Laws are essentially the same idea, we want the Robot not to hurt people, to obey orders so as it can do so without hurting people and to protect itself so long as doing so doesn't harm people or violate orders.

There are tricky things with robots, you probably don't want the robot obeying just anyone's orders. Otherwise, people would order the robot to come home with them. The robot would have to come out of the box prepared to take orders from only its owner (and from customer support). The first law gets tricky. You wouldn't want the robot to restrict voluntary actions, a robot which forbade humans from playing sports wouldn't be a good robot. The Zeroth Law gets really problematic. It is difficult to imagine the horror of the Black Death. But those who survived found that their labor was suddenly much more valuable, and the status of peasants improved. Suppose they had robots that could cure the Black Death. With the Zeroth Law, the robots could decide that humanity was better off with the Black Death than without it. The First Law would require the robots to provide the cure. The Zeroth Law would allow them to withhold it. We might want a robot to interfere with a mugger, even if it hurts the mugger, but we probably wouldn't want a robot to be taking such big matters into their own hands. We benefited from the Black Death, but to choose the Black Death would be horrific.
QuantumIguana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 07:30 AM   #218
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,542
Karma: 61729709
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Galaxy SIII; Xoom; Kindle Fire
I think James Joyce is more over-rated than Asimov by far!

Last edited by kennyc; 02-11-2013 at 01:23 PM.
kennyc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 07:33 AM   #219
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,542
Karma: 61729709
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Galaxy SIII; Xoom; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by crich70 View Post
Yep the movie "I Robot" isn't strictly speaking a direct translation of the book to movie. ....
Oh, YOU'RE THE ONE that work up this nicely snoozing thread....
kennyc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 07:33 AM   #220
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,542
Karma: 61729709
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Galaxy SIII; Xoom; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
I want/need to read Asimov. One of these days. One of these days.
Yes you should.
kennyc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 10:22 AM   #221
QuantumIguana
Philosopher
QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
QuantumIguana's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,874
Karma: 17022226
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
I think James Joyce if more over-rated than Asimov by far!
If only James Joyce had written stories about robots...
QuantumIguana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 10:37 AM   #222
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,542
Karma: 61729709
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Galaxy SIII; Xoom; Kindle Fire
He did.
kennyc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 01:20 PM   #223
Andrew H.
Grand Master of Flowers
Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,190
Karma: 8233324
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Naptown
Device: Kindle PW, Kindle 3 (aka Keyboard), iPhone, iPad 3 (not for reading)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Abe View Post
Certainly Asimov belongs in the same class of writers as Heinlein, del Rey, Bester, etc. Isaac may not be in the same league as Sturgeon, but, that is a matter of personal preference. Because SF does not aspire to the lofty ideals of great literature, the average fan is satisfied with a good plot and mild amusement.
*Asimov* didn't, and many other SF writers don't - but that doesn't mean that "SF" doesn't, or that no writers in SF do. As for aspiring to the ideals of great literature, you could look at "Gravity's Rainbow," at "The Handmaiden's Tale," at "The Sparrow," at "The Time-Traveller's Wife," at "Never Let me Go", or at "Fahrenheit 451", and at many things written by Ursula LeGuin, and at Ted Chiang's short stories. Whether these works have achieved the lofty goals of great literature is, of course, a different question.
Quote:
SF was not haute cuisine, nor was it nouvelle cuisine. That was the credo Asimov followed, and who can blame him? Was the world ready for esoteric, new wave Sci Fi when he was writing? Yes, and no. Thomas Disch was brilliant and ahead of his time. But not in a commercial sense, meaning he never raked in the big bucks like Asimov or Bradbury. Possibly, the operative word was accessible. Drift a little, but not too far afield. If China Mieville were writing in 1950, he would have been shunned. Incomprehensible, way too avant garde. Could Asimov have altered his writing style over the years? Not after he tasted fame and publicity. That would be like asking Stephen King to pen The Brothers Karamazov. Rather than critique Asimov for what he wasn't, let's just say there are many writers in the universe to read besides this one man. Asimov is neither overrated or underrated. After all, he did not get a Nobel prize, did he? Try other authors, even Doris Lessing. No comment on her. Why? Because it takes a lot of reading to tell how good or important a writer may be, in his/her lifetime.
I've always thought it interesting that Asimov significantly cut back his SF production in the late 50's, focusing instead on non-fiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
I don't know, I'm reading Golem100 by Alfred Bester and its plenty exploitative in a cheesy B-science fiction movie way. I have to say, I picked it for a laugh and it's been a quality selection based on that requirement.
Yeah, that was kind of his "comeback novel after 25 years or whatever of not writing SF; I like his earlier stuff better.
Andrew H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 02:43 PM   #224
elcreative
Wizard
elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elcreative ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,884
Karma: 5875940
Join Date: Dec 2007
Device: PRS505, 600, 350, 650, Nexus 7, Note III, iPad 4 etc
You can't include "The Handmaiden's Tale" in a discussion involving SF, it isn't SF as Margaret Atwood went to great lengths to say...
elcreative is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 03:41 PM   #225
QuantumIguana
Philosopher
QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
QuantumIguana's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,874
Karma: 17022226
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcreative View Post
You can't include "The Handmaiden's Tale" in a discussion involving SF, it isn't SF as Margaret Atwood went to great lengths to say...
She can say whatever she wants of course. But attempting to lift it out of the mire of science fiction, as some people see it, doesn't mean it isn't science fiction. It reminds me of an old joke: how many legs does a dog have if you call a tail a leg. Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
QuantumIguana is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Today is the birthday of Isaac Asimov kennyc Reading Recommendations 11 01-11-2013 04:48 PM
Isaac Asimov - Foundation Series Help pakiyabhai Reading Recommendations 31 11-26-2010 12:39 AM
Science Fiction Asimov, Isaac: Youth, v1, 11 March 2010. Patricia BBeB/LRF Books 2 03-30-2010 07:11 PM
Science Fiction Asimov, Isaac: Youth, v1, 11 March 2010. Patricia IMP Books 0 03-10-2010 10:33 PM
Discuss: The Gods Themselves by Isaac Asimov astrodad Reading Recommendations 8 06-02-2008 03:41 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:17 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.