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Old 09-28-2012, 06:39 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiLuJe View Post
It looks like KG 2.5 puts more than one StartOffset in the exth metadata:

In Doitsu's example, the TOC, then the Start.

So, yeah, if what's in there isn't bogus (and it doesn't look like it), and the K3 chokes on this (or only honors the first entry: you start on the TOC instead of the 'proper' start), probably a K3 bug. (Calibre only puts a single entry in there: the start).
So since EXTH metadata manipulation (addition, deletion, modification) is fairly well documented ... I'd say a script to eliminate the extra StartOffset from the binary (without unpacking and rebuilding) should be (somewhat) trivial.

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On Mobi Unpack's side, it was doing some stuff with it for KF8 files (pop'ing the list to get the last one), so you ended up with only half of it in the OPF meta. And it was indeed building guide entries from those, without a title, even if the proper guide extraction was successful. (On the other hand, it later tries to do this again a dozen of lines after having deleted it o_O).
Thanks for taking a look!
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:08 AM   #32
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It looks like Kindlegen is just carrying over the MOBI StartOffset from the first (MOBI) EXTH section and just appending it AND the KF8 StartOffset to the second (KF8) EXTH section.

That explains a lot. Including why it was "accidentally" correct sometimes—depending on the book.

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Old 09-28-2012, 10:59 AM   #33
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The file structure might also play a role. For example, did you use a single .html source file with toc and text anchors or separate .html toc and chapter files
I have tried both. Same results.
Do you mean by "I have tried both." that you tried both single files and separate files or that you also generated azw3 files with Calibre and tested them on your Kindle?

@NiLuJe Since you have a Kindle 5w (Touch?) and apparently nobody with a Kindle Fire has tested my combo file so far, can you please test the guide items in it?
I'm curious whether this is strictly a K3 FW3.4 issue or whether other KF8-capable Kindles are effected by this issue as well.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:05 PM   #34
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I meant that originally it was one file.

I split it into three xhtml files: the title, the toc and the main document. In that case the start was supposed to be the beginning of the third file.

Both ways produced identical results.

I have not generated anything with Calibre.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:07 PM   #35
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If/when you understand the problem, please can you tell me how to work around it. Thanks.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:08 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doitsu View Post
I'm curious whether this is strictly a K3 FW3.4 issue or whether other KF8-capable Kindles are effected by this issue as well.
I'm pretty sure there's another thread around here talking about similar experiences with the K4.

Yep. http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=183968

Certainly sounds like the same thing going on (no concrete evidence, of course).
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:17 PM   #37
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If/when you understand the problem, please can you tell me how to work around it. Thanks.
I'm afraid for the time being the only workaround is to simply ignore this issue. Ask yourself, how many times have you used Go to Beginning with your ebooks?

Chances are that 99% of potential Kindle book readers will never even notice that there is a problem.

Since the Go to Beginning guide item worked fine in a non-KF8 file created with an older KindleGen version and an azw3 file generated by Calibre, AFAIK, you only have two possibilities.

a) Downgrade KindleGen to V1.1 build 99 and create a simple mobi7 file. This means that you won't be able to embed fonts and cannot use some other advanced features introduced with KF8. On the plus side your book is less likely to be rejected by Amazon.

b) Use Calibre to create an .azw3 (=KF8-only) or a combo mobi file and keep your fingers crossed that Amazon won't notice that it wasn't created with KindleGen.

Of course, you shouldn't discount the possibility that DiapDealer, NiLuJe or one of the other "usual suspects" will come up with a smart workaround or that a bored Amazon developer stumbles upon this thread and actually investigates and fixes this issue.

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I'm pretty sure there's another thread around here talking about similar experiences with the K4.
Your encyclopedic knowledge of all things ebook related never ceases to amaze me!
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:10 PM   #38
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@DiapDealer: Ooh, you're right. It's carrying over the offset from the mobi7 part!

And I was wrong, AFAICT, the few KF8 files I've checked (straight from Amazon) only keep the correct one, so, yeah, maybe it gets 'fixed' after the KDP pass...

That would imply that the 'split' action of MU should do the same .

That said, I'll check how my Touch handles those master mobi, see if there's really an issue on the K3, even if what KG does isn't terribly smart in the first place.

I'll try to come up with a less broken MU patch after checking all that .

EDIT: FW 3.4 bug. It's working as intended on the Touch. Weeeee... -_-". Add that to the weird can't change font families bug in some KF8 files that uses multiple families for styling ... (Another thing happening on 3.4 that works flawlessly on the Touch).

Last edited by NiLuJe; 09-28-2012 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:54 PM   #39
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If/when you understand the problem, please can you tell me how to work around it. Thanks.
To be honest: if you're preparing ebooks for KDP there may not be anything TO work around (if the KDP process is stripping out the extra StartOffset as part of its delivery process, as NiluJe suspects).

It'd be nice to be able to test/verify the "Go to Beginning" feature on an actual device before uploading to KDP, but that may not be in the cards.

I can't, in good conscience, recommend altering the file that Kindlegen produces before uploading to KDP (which is frankly what it would probably take to "fix" at this point). There's simply no telling what could cause the modified file to be rejected by the KDP process. But a post-kindlegen script of some sort to deal with the double-offsets makes perfect sense to me -- for those who are creating ebooks with Kindlegen for personal use or for self-distribution. Perhaps, as NiluJe, recommended, as part of MobiUnpack's "splitter" feature.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 09-28-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:31 PM   #40
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But that would mean that we have a situation where a file made by Kindlegen is a correct input to KDP, and is a correct input to Previewer but is not a correct input to an actual device. Have I got that right?

If so, could we not have a patch that would somehow alter this mobi not for upload to KDP but only for upload to a device.

If we can't do this I can't make files that will be correct on a device without uploading them and then buying them, which is madness.

So I think you are then saying that Mobi-unpack could do it, but Mobi-unpack doesn't let one end up with a mobi file. Could Mobi-unpack produce the mobi7 and mobi8 versions of the mobi file for us as well as what it produces now??

Last edited by Tugger; 09-28-2012 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:45 PM   #41
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And here's a slightly less broken MU patch, that attempts to kill the extra StartOffsets in the mobi8 part when splitting (and tries to avoid the guide entries without title in mobi8 in a slightly less stupid way than my previous attempt)...

@Tugger: Keep in mind that (some) devices handle those (master mobis with multiple StartOffsets) files fine, not only the Previewer. It works correctly on my Touch. Only FW 3.4 (and possibly 4.1?) seem to be confused by these files.
And with this patch, you can end up with a mobi7 & a mobi8 that should (hopefully) work as well as if they were processed by the KDP.

EDIT: Updated patch in #53

Last edited by NiLuJe; 09-29-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:51 PM   #42
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@NiLuJe That sounds great. But sorry for my ignorance, I don't understand how to make a mobi file (to send to a device) from the contents of the mobi7 (or mobi8) folders produced by Mobi-unpack?

(I only know how to modify the kindlegen source and drop the opf file onto Previewer to run Kindlegen again.)

I also don't know how to make a new version of Mobi-unpack using your patch file. I'm a beginner at all this.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:08 PM   #43
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If so, could we not have a patch that would somehow alter this mobi not for upload to KDP but only for upload to a device.
Absolutely. That's what I have in mind.

Quote:
So I think you are then saying that Mobi-unpack could do it, but Mobi-unpack doesn't let one end up with a mobi file. Could Mobi-unpack produce the mobi7 and mobi8 versions of the mobi file for us as well as what it produces now??
MobiUnpack can already produce the individual mobi7 and KF8 versions in addition to "what it produces now". The "splitter" functionality has been there for quite some time. We only have to make sure that the KF8 file it produces doesn't have the dual start-offset problem we've been discussing.

The stuff intended for sale for through KDP sounds like it will take care of itself.

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Old 09-28-2012, 08:09 PM   #44
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That's definitely a possibility, however, since I just successfully generated an .azw3 file with Calibre that doesn't have these guide problems, I strongly suspect that there's a bug in the current KindleGen version.

Do you happen to know whether Amazon offers older KindleGen versions for download hidden on their server somewhere?
Doitsu:

We've been experimenting with this here, as well. It's our opinion that it's a K3 rendering engine issue. When we dl your test file, the "go to" on my Fire works. Of course, unfortunately, there wasn't really another page in front of it, as a viable test. It doesn't seem to work correctly on the K3. ETA: I mean to say, I do not believe it is a KG or KP issue.

We have several books we've tested--they work fine on KP, on Fire and on K2, but the K3 can sometimes--not always--jump to the middle of the first page of Chapter 1 (or whatever page is set as the "text" location).

I hope that this helps. (I would have replied sooner, but getting sideloaded files to finally SHOW UP on the Fire is a never-ending problem. It's very annoying. And, yes, I reboot and reboot, but for some reason, the delay time is frustrating as hell. Doesn't matter if I use wifi or USB.)

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Last edited by Hitch; 09-28-2012 at 08:12 PM. Reason: Added a clarification.
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Old 09-29-2012, 02:57 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
MobiUnpack can already produce the individual mobi7 and KF8 versions in addition to "what it produces now". The "splitter" functionality has been there for quite some time. We only have to make sure that the KF8 file it produces doesn't have the dual start-offset problem we've been discussing.

The stuff intended for sale for through KDP sounds like it will take care of itself.
I know MobiUnpack produces a mobi7 folder and a mobi8 folder with the code for mobi7 and KF8 devices respectively.

What I don't know is exactly what I do in each case to take what is in the folder and put it on the device. I do not see a .mobi file to copy to it. The answer must be obvious, but not to me.
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