Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > Kindle Formats

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-19-2015, 10:11 AM   #1
flyfisher33
Enthusiast
flyfisher33 began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 29
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: none
Use Kindle images for ePub

I used Calibre to convert a compliant ePub to mobi. The resulting file works fine in Kindle Previewer and various Kindle apps (tablet and desktop). The file is approximately 30MB, the original ePub (generated by InDesign CS6) is 300MB. Knowing that the .mobi images have been compressed to meet Kindle requirements, can I use the files from an AZW3 conversion of the .mobi file to replace ePub images? Or run the packaged ID image book folder through Bridge to resize and then replace the renamed image files in the Calibre ePub file? Or, finally, is there a better method of compressing the ePub without going back into the ID book file and redoing every image?
Paul
flyfisher33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 10:59 AM   #2
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 41,024
Karma: 23830627
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
You should set the Calibre output profile to tablet so you do not modify the images. The Kindle PW1 & 2 are higher resolution screens and the Voyage is an even higher resolution screen. So you do want the images high resolution. Plus, you should convert to AZW3 and not Mobi. Mobi is obsolete and for the higher resolution screens, AZW3 is much nicer.

To change the output profile to tablet, do the following... Preferences | Common options | Page setup | Output profile | Tablet. The output profile of tablet does not modifed the images at all. It leaves them alone which is what you really do want. Even on a lower resolution device such as the Kindle Keyboard and Kindle Touch, higher resolution images look better when scaled down.

There is a program called ePUBOptimizer (do a search for it on MR) that will subset TTF fonts and reduce the size of graphics (without changing the quality) for ePub. You do that and then you convert to AZW3 and you'll have a smaller resulting eBook.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 11:21 AM   #3
flyfisher33
Enthusiast
flyfisher33 began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 29
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: none
Thank you. Until the last para I thought you misread my question. The mobi and AZW3 files are the same size. I'll take your advice re the mobi file (although it looks fine in all the apps I have), but it's the ePub file that's the problem. I can't see people being happy to download a 300MB file so I'll try the optimizer solution. I forgot to mention that I tried reconverting the AZW3 file to ePub but it was badly non-compliant (although it did drop the size to 10MB).

Paul
flyfisher33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 12:41 PM   #4
flyfisher33
Enthusiast
flyfisher33 began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 29
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: none
Sorry to pile on the posts but I'm now completely confused. BTW, the optimizer didn't work (crashed).
1. Kindle Previewer won't open AZW3 files.
2. When I used Kindlegen to convert the ePub file it got much larger (331MB vs 223MB). Kindlegen yields a .mobi file.
3. How can Calibre output a 30MB mobi file that looks as good in both my desktop and tablet apps (looks good in Kindle previewer as well, accepting the variations in image size on the higher res devices, although they click up to full page width and still look good)?

Any help would be appreciated.

Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher33 View Post
Thank you. Until the last para I thought you misread my question. The mobi and AZW3 files are the same size. I'll take your advice re the mobi file (although it looks fine in all the apps I have), but it's the ePub file that's the problem. I can't see people being happy to download a 300MB file so I'll try the optimizer solution. I forgot to mention that I tried reconverting the AZW3 file to ePub but it was badly non-compliant (although it did drop the size to 10MB).

Paul
flyfisher33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 12:51 PM   #5
DaleDe
Grand Sorcerer
DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DaleDe's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,090
Karma: 6744922
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2
Answer to point 2 - KindleGen always builds a file in multiple formats, a KF8, an older mobi, and includes the source file. An option can exclude the source file but you still get two formats. In Amazon file the file extension is often meaningless as to the internal format. You can use Kindle unpack to take apart a KindleGen file.

Dale
DaleDe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 01:33 PM   #6
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 41,024
Karma: 23830627
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
To get just the KF8 (AZW3) out of the Kindlegen combined file, load the file into Calibre and using the KindleUnpack plugin, you can split the file into both Mobi and AZW3 (KF8). Keep the AZW3 file and delete the rest.

Do not be surprised if the AZW3 is larger than the ePub as the compression is not as good.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 02:12 PM   #7
flyfisher33
Enthusiast
flyfisher33 began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 29
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: none
Thanks to both you and Dale. Still outstanding is number 3. Rephrased, why don't I simply upload the 30MB Calibre conversion (either the mobi or AZW3 file) to KDP rather than messing with the 300MB file generated by Kindlegen? I don't understand why I'm getting such massively different file sizes.

Paul
flyfisher33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 02:59 PM   #8
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 41,024
Karma: 23830627
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher33 View Post
Thanks to both you and Dale. Still outstanding is number 3. Rephrased, why don't I simply upload the 30MB Calibre conversion (either the mobi or AZW3 file) to KDP rather than messing with the 300MB file generated by Kindlegen? I don't understand why I'm getting such massively different file sizes.

Paul
Because Amazon doesn't accept Calibre conversions and, you do not want to upload a lesser quality eBook. You want high resolution image, not recompressed and reduced images.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 03:17 PM   #9
flyfisher33
Enthusiast
flyfisher33 began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 29
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: none
Ok, there's the rub I didn't realize. Unfortunately I suspect I'm still in trouble. Amazon says Kindle images are limited to 128kb and mine are clearly way beyond that. They're all high-res (181, 100% width, 300ppi) so they need to be compressed. I'll generate an ePub at 150 ppi and a lower quality and see what results.
Thanks and cheers,
Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Because Amazon doesn't accept Calibre conversions and, you do not want to upload a lesser quality eBook. You want high resolution image, not recompressed and reduced images.
flyfisher33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 04:27 PM   #10
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,395
Karma: 32085221
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher33 View Post
Ok, there's the rub I didn't realize. Unfortunately I suspect I'm still in trouble. Amazon says Kindle images are limited to 128kb and mine are clearly way beyond that. They're all high-res (181, 100% width, 300ppi) so they need to be compressed. I'll generate an ePub at 150 ppi and a lower quality and see what results.
Thanks and cheers,
Paul
Nor can you upload an "AZW" file of any kind--AZW, nor AZW3--to Amazon. You can only upload a small variety of file types, including the ePUB. However, assuming that this isn't a comic book nor FF book, you're limited to a 50mb file upload.

Just make the book in ePUB or HTML format as you WANT to see it. Then build it with Kindlegen/KPreviewer, to see what your output is. If you have graphic elements, rather than "images" use PNG8 for your output format, to reduce size, if needed. Amazon's compression algo is better than many people give credit for.

Search...the ePUB forum, I think it is, although it might be the Workshop, for posts by Texanns02, who posts in detail and at GREAT length, about optimizing images. His posts will be invaluable to you.

Do NOT use Calibre for commercial books, please, if you don't know how to edit the HTML. It's a perfectly suitable tool for those folks who are shortcutting some of the preliminary build-and-clean, but it's not a good tool for those who are new to the business, whether for DIY purposes or trying to break into the GLAMOROUS world of eBook-making. (HA! Honestly, I understood those of us who leapt into this 5-6 years ago, but now? Oish).

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 12:49 PM   #11
flyfisher33
Enthusiast
flyfisher33 began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 29
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: none
[QUOTE=Hitch;3029027]Nor can you upload an "AZW" file of any kind--AZW, nor AZW3--to Amazon. You can only upload a small variety of file types, including the ePUB. However, assuming that this isn't a comic book nor FF book, you're limited to a 50mb file upload.

Thanks once again Hitch. Found the major problem, ID was converting all my images to png instead of compressing the jpgs. A high quality ePub file is now 36 MB. Unfortunately kindlegen bloats that to 72 although, as someone said elsewhere that may be the effect of kg producing several files for the old and new kindles. I'll try uploading the the ePub file as soon as I can get a US TIN to see if works. If not I can always use a lower quality (half-size) file.
BTW, I couldn't find Texanns02 anywhere.
Paul
flyfisher33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 01:21 PM   #12
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 41,024
Karma: 23830627
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
[QUOTE=flyfisher33;3029564]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Nor can you upload an "AZW" file of any kind--AZW, nor AZW3--to Amazon. You can only upload a small variety of file types, including the ePUB. However, assuming that this isn't a comic book nor FF book, you're limited to a 50mb file upload.

Thanks once again Hitch. Found the major problem, ID was converting all my images to png instead of compressing the jpgs. A high quality ePub file is now 36 MB. Unfortunately kindlegen bloats that to 72 although, as someone said elsewhere that may be the effect of kg producing several files for the old and new kindles. I'll try uploading the the ePub file as soon as I can get a US TIN to see if works. If not I can always use a lower quality (half-size) file.
BTW, I couldn't find Texanns02 anywhere.
Paul
If by lower quality half-size you mean reducing the image sizes, bad idea. On higher resolution Readers such as PW1, PW2, & Voyage, the images would look poor.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 01:38 PM   #13
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,395
Karma: 32085221
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher33 View Post
Thanks once again Hitch. Found the major problem, ID was converting all my images to png instead of compressing the jpgs. A high quality ePub file is now 36 MB.
Flyfisher:

You're going to hate me, but...honestly, using PNGs is better, 99% of the time, than using JPEGs, simply because PNGs are not lossy by design. And you can compress the high holy heck out of them. If you have graphics, like vectors, man, you can get a lot of mileage out of PNG-8.

What Wolfie, the Resident Curmudgeon, says, is accurate--be careful about what you do to compress/save that space. You still need as many pixels as possible on the high-rez devices. For example...(rummages around, looking for the Evernote file that I had to save, because the Politically-Correct Nazis at Wikipedia took DOWN the perfectly good, absolutely useful article about device/tablet screen resolutions and sizes--MR'ers, can we do a wiki article HERE with that info???? Or is everyone going to complain because it's "too commercial," ???)...
  • A KFire has a "mere" 1024 x 600 pixels, but,
  • A Fire HD 7" has 1280 x 800.
  • An HD 9.9 has 1920 x 1200, but,
  • An HDX 8.9 has a whopping 2560 x 1600.

...and, what most people don't realize is generally, the displays show the images pixel-for-pixel.

So, if you put an image in that's 600px wide, on the Fire, it would be full-width (in portrait mode, obviously); on the HD 8.9, it would be a skosh over 2" wide; but on the HDX, it would be less than 2" wide.

And please, for the love of heaven, don't do what you see touted around, setting "width=100%," please, because LOTS of people read with things like K4PC/Mac, and end up with grossly overblown images.

Offered FWIW.

Quote:
Unfortunately kindlegen bloats that to 72 although, as someone said elsewhere that may be the effect of kg producing several files for the old and new kindles. I'll try uploading the the ePub file as soon as I can get a US TIN to see if works. If not I can always use a lower quality (half-size) file.
BTW, I couldn't find Texanns02 anywhere.
Paul
ALSO, that's not "bloat." It's 3 files. It's a complete copy of your source file (36MB, apparently), a KF8 file (of unknown size, for now) and a KF7 file. You can find out your delivery fee, etc., without any TIN, EIN or SSN; you can set up an Amazon account without that, and test your book. You can't PUBLISH the book without it, but test accounts? That, you can do all day long.

Again, offered FWIW.

Oh, and Sorry, it's Tex2002ans, or something like that: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/member.php?u=174079

Hitch

Last edited by Hitch; 01-20-2015 at 01:40 PM. Reason: ETA info on Tex...
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 01:41 PM   #14
flyfisher33
Enthusiast
flyfisher33 began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 29
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: none
[QUOTE=JSWolf;3029582]
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher33 View Post

If by lower quality half-size you mean reducing the image sizes, bad idea. On higher resolution Readers such as PW1, PW2, & Voyage, the images would look poor.
Thanks JSWolf, I'd reduce the resolution from 300 to 150, cuts the ePub down to a little over 18MB. Can't see I'd have much choice if KDP rejects the file as too large. There are no savings in the html files, the images (photos and illustrations) are 99% of the file size.

Paul
flyfisher33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 02:02 PM   #15
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 41,024
Karma: 23830627
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
[QUOTE=flyfisher33;3029596]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post

Thanks JSWolf, I'd reduce the resolution from 300 to 150, cuts the ePub down to a little over 18MB. Can't see I'd have much choice if KDP rejects the file as too large. There are no savings in the html files, the images (photos and illustrations) are 99% of the file size.

Paul
And you cut down the resolution and you make it look crappy on newer high resolution devices such as the PW2 and the Voyage. I've seem images be too small for old Readers such as the Kindle Touch (800x600) and imagine the same too small images being displayed on a higher resolution screen. You need high enough resolution images such that it will display well on all portable devices.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Images exporting to epub carlsbad ePub 1 08-04-2014 07:45 AM
Opus Scroll Images in ePub Celtic67 Bookeen 1 12-02-2011 05:14 AM
Images in EPUB books spaze ePub 28 03-06-2011 10:32 PM
ePub with Images prdufresne Calibre 10 12-04-2010 01:55 AM
Extracting images from an ePub MacEachaidh Sigil 2 11-08-2010 09:50 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:53 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.