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Old 09-04-2012, 03:40 AM   #16
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I'm guessing you haven't been reading the leaked reports about the new Kindle?

"The Verge notes that the “Paperwhite” branding likely refers to the upgraded E-Ink screen technology over the Kindle’s existing “Pearl” screen."
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:04 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by DarkScribe View Post
Why do you feel that an upgrade in any product must be based on time rather than a genuine necessity for improvement? The current displays are not problematic, they are not being complained about. They work well.

I am quite happy with my devices, I cannot see any area concerning the display that needs improving. I think that you are being unrealistic and somewhat disingenuous.
Has any upgrade really been a necessity of improvement. Vast majority of the time, the current version works just fine, but doesn't mean it couldn't benefit from some sort of newer release. Also, just because you do not see areas that need improving, doesn't mean it cannot improve, or that others (or even yourself) wouldn't find it more useful if they were improved.

For instance, eInk could be improved with higher resolution panels, plastic substrates for higher durability, higher contrast levels with more of a true white background, and higher refresh rates. The plastic substrate would be great, as it would mean fewer shattered displays. If they could do higher resolutions, it would be easier to have eInk displays in different devices. For what I do, a smart phone is the best bet, due to the internet connection and ability to sync email, contacts, notes, tasks, and calendar info. Vast majority of what I do on my smartphone is pure text, and so could benefit from an eink display, but I'd have a huge drop in resolution compared to my current phone. Also, if more work was done to push larger eInk panels, we could get a device that works better for tech documents, textbooks, etc. Much of those are in PDF, which sucks when scaled down, or are in a manner that does not reflow well. Personally, I'd like to see an eInk panel in a tablet device. Current panels, and their corresponding controllers (largely the controllers), are too slow to be useful to do any heavy use in a tablet. If I had a device that I could view my textbooks on, and quickly write down my class notes, with eInk, I'd love it. Right now, I either need to use pen and paper, or an LCD device that quickly drains the battery. In some of the demos, they've shown eink panels doing video, but what commercial eink device is able to do that? I'm not saying I necessarily want video, but if they could get refresh to be that quick, I could write something on the tablet in realtime, rather than write it down and have it appear after I've already stopped.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:16 AM   #18
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It's strange to hear a claim that print is not high resolution. Magazine print can't be replicated by 300 dpi laser printers. E-ink doesn't come close. 300 dpi would be a substantial, easily visible improvement to e-ink displays intended for e-readers. So would improved contrast; again, it appears to me to be less than paper. And screen refresh times need to go up by a factor of 5 or more, for page turns. There's plenty of room to make the technology better.

When an e-reader page looks as good as a page of The New Yorker or The Atlantic and page turns are 1/10 sec, then I'll be satisfied with the screen quality.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:48 AM   #19
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There have? I tend to read on my phone or tablet when going to bed at night, reading on an eInk screen requires, at least in my case, not only a reading light but also ambient light. Since I often fall asleep while reading I prefer the Android devices, they turn themselves off after a certain time of inaction. The light stays on until I wake up. Hence, I'm interested in what you say about sleep patterns and health. Any links?
Yep, they sure have. I see reports regularly. Look at this one (I posted a link to it yesterday.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/tec...831-254fh.html

Some people might have no problem, other have chronic insomnia that is being linked to using a computer, watching a TV or reading on a tablet. Reading a conventional book - or on an eReader - does not create the problem. I had several years of difficulty sleeping - diagnosed as Narcolepsy at one stage - all of which disappeared when the sleep clinic I was referred to stopped me using any device that actually emitted light (for at least three hours) before attempting to sleep. The effect was instant, and for me almost magical. Using a computer or watching TV has become such a ubiquitous part of our lives that many never consider it to be a problem.

Insomnia among children has become almost epidemic in some demographics, but not among those who do not have access to devices with screens, or who are not allowed to watch TV until bedtime. As I said, it isn't everyone, but for those who do have difficulty sleeping, avoiding light emitting screens can solve a lot of problems. Ever noticed how many very young children nowadays have bags under their eyes?

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Old 09-04-2012, 04:53 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by garygibsonsf View Post
I'm guessing you haven't been reading the leaked reports about the new Kindle?

"The Verge notes that the “Paperwhite” branding likely refers to the upgraded E-Ink screen technology over the Kindle’s existing “Pearl” screen."
I most certainly have noticed (I write about lifestyle and technology) and I will repeat what I said earlier. It would not induce me to upgrade as I have no problem with the current Pearl screen. I actually like the contrast ratio. If I had a higher contrast ratio I would probably "back it off" if possible. I am sure that you will find many who like me - don't regard the current screen technology as "broke" and see no reason to fix it.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:07 AM   #21
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It's strange to hear a claim that print is not high resolution. Magazine print can't be replicated by 300 dpi laser printers. E-ink doesn't come close. 300 dpi would be a substantial, easily visible improvement to e-ink displays intended for e-readers. So would improved contrast; again, it appears to me to be less than paper. And screen refresh times need to go up by a factor of 5 or more, for page turns. There's plenty of room to make the technology better.

When an e-reader page looks as good as a page of The New Yorker or The Atlantic and page turns are 1/10 sec, then I'll be satisfied with the screen quality.
An offset press at maximum resolution needs a high quality (and much more expensive) paper to be effective. A good magazine will provide such quality, but a newspaper or a conventional paperback book won't. Grab yourself a jeweler's loupe and compare a paperback novel to the output of a 300dpi Laser. (Though most nowadays are 600 or better.) The resolution from eInk won't match a photograph, but it effectively matches a mass produced book.

When you think about it, although a current iPad's Retina screen is quite effective, most WEB sites still use 72 DPI for graphics. It is like the new TV screens with "triple the resolution and half the thickness" that are being advertised for release in few weeks - how long before TV channels begin transmitting content that will use that increased resolution. Just like 3D, it will be a flop. We still have less than ten percent of content available in 3D, much to the chagrin of all those consumer a couple of years back who raced out and bought 3D sets to replace their perfectly functional existing sets.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:14 AM   #22
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It seems to me that the major area e-readers should improve is their operating systems and/or firmwares. While the current generation e-ink screens are, from my point of view, good enough - and a significant improvement compared to first gen e-ink - e-reading devices are still rather sluggish and slow to operate (and this is definitely not to blame exclusively on the somewhat lower refresh rates of e-ink screens). The lack of proper pdf support in most (all?) e-ink readers is another issue. In these areas tablets (and smartphones) offer significant advantages over current e-ink devices. Manufacturers should strive to bridge this gap.
Yes, as I said earlier, most of the effective new releases will be to the device, not the screen. I would appreciate a faster processor when I have device that is sluggishly indexing several thousand books, or doing searches, but I am quite happy with the screen. I would also like much more memory as I play music constantly. It would avoid the necessity to use both an eReader and an iPod when reading. These are small things that would appeal to me, and if they come to pass I will consider an upgrade. I certainly won't upgrade just because a newer model is available.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:15 AM   #23
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I most certainly have noticed (I write about lifestyle and technology) and I will repeat what I said earlier. It would not induce me to upgrade as I have no problem with the current Pearl screen. I actually like the contrast ratio. If I had a higher contrast ratio I would probably "back it off" if possible. I am sure that you will find many who like me - don't regard the current screen technology as "broke" and see no reason to fix it.
I want pure black letters on a pure white screen with no reflections.

I can take a slight back glow like a light through the translucence whiteness for reading in the dark or dim light.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:26 AM   #24
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The market is NOT getting smaller, it is plateauing.
Or, as Spinal Tap put it:
Quote:
Marty: The last time Tap toured America, they where, uh, booked into
10,000 seat arenas, and 15,000 seat venues, and it seems that now,
on their current tour they're being booked into 1,200 seat
arenas, 1,500 seat arenas, and uh I was just wondering,
does this mean uh...the popularity of the group is waning?

Ian: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no...no, no, not at all. I, I, I just think
that the.. uh.. their appeal is becoming more selective.
Quote:
Now you are once again being disingenuous. People buy tablets because they want what a tablet offers, they don't buy them as de facto eReaders.
[...]
You are again comparing apples and oranges. Tablets and eReaders are not in competition. People who only own one might read on them, much as some people use a Kindle app to read on a computer, but those who do a lot of reading prefer a dedicated eReader.
[...]
You are clearly determined to regard tablets and dedicated eReaders as competing with each other. This is your prerogative, luckily those involved in developing and manufacturing the devices don't agree with you.
So you don't think the Nook Color/Tablet and the Kobo Vox are sold as eReading devices? You don't think sales of the Kindle Fire in any way impact sales of other Kindle devices?

Quote:
When an eReader can match the resolution of a printed page - why is higher resolution needed?
Current eInk readers are nowhere near matching the resolution of a printed page.

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Old 09-04-2012, 05:29 AM   #25
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Some people might have no problem, other have chronic insomnia that is being linked to using a computer, watching a TV or reading on a tablet. Reading a conventional book - or on an eReader - does not create the problem.
Really?
Any evidence to show that reading an eInk reader or normal book in the dark with a booklight, which the fair comparison to reading a tablet in the dark, wouldn't cause similar issues?
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:58 AM   #26
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I want pure black letters on a pure white screen with no reflections.

I can take a slight back glow like a light through the translucence whiteness for reading in the dark or dim light.
There will be many people just like you, one of my daughters has the same attitude. There will be many more who like a softer contrast - it is easier on the eyes for them if they tend to use the device for extended reading. Some people run their monitors or computer screens at maximum contrast, most - if survey results are accurate - prefer a less harsh contrast.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:59 AM   #27
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Really?
Any evidence to show that reading an eInk reader or normal book in the dark with a booklight, which the fair comparison to reading a tablet in the dark, wouldn't cause similar issues?
Yes. Google is your friend. (Well it is sometimes.)
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:03 AM   #28
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Yes. Google is your friend. (Well it is sometimes.)
Care to provide some? Your original link didn't have any such info.
Photons are photons, whether they are generated by a backlight or by a reading light reflected from a screen.
The issues are absolute brightness, and relative brightness of the screen compared to background lighting. Both of those issues would also occur with a frontlit screen.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:18 AM   #29
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Or, as Spinal Tap put it:


So you don't think the Nook Color/Tablet and the Kobo Vox are sold as eReading devices? You don't think sales of the Kindle Fire in any way impact sales of other Kindle devices?
Did I say or imply that? If you want to debate me, try to stick to what I actually say, not what you wish I had said.


Quote:
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Current eInk readers are nowhere near matching the resolution of a printed page.
Some pages, but as I use an eReader for reading what are basically mass produced novels, not Hi-Res art magazines, their resolution is effectively as good. If I want to look at something Hi-Res I will use my iPad or a MacBook with a Retina screen. If I want to just read a copy of Finnegan's Wake, the Kindle DX is little different to an original copy of the book.

You can split hairs all you like, you can nominate coffee table books with a resolution sharp enough to give you paper cuts from across the room. The issue that I am discussing is that unless ePaper has a massive improvement, not just an improvement that cannot be noticed by the average reader, it is not likely to start overnight queues in the street the night before release. The demographic who love eReaders is not the same demographic who can't wait for the latest smart phone or gaming device. Look at the sales figure demographics, look at the age demographic for eReaders. They are highly represented among Baby Boomers, not teenagers.

This started with a whinge about "it is time they upped the specs on ePaper" not a whinge about the huge problems that people were having with existing ePaper technology. Look at eBay, Craig's List, your local classifieds. There are far more pads, computers, smart phones etc., than recent model eReaders. People aren't in a rush to part with them. Some, those who are primarily driven by ego, not need, to upgrade, will as always race out and buy the latest gadget. Many who own current technology won't unless they can see real improvement.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:20 AM   #30
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Did I say or imply that? If you want to debate me, try to stick to what I actually say, not what you wish I had said.
Yes, you did.
You said:
Quote:
Tablets and eReaders are not in competition.
and
Quote:
You are clearly determined to regard tablets and dedicated eReaders as competing with each other. This is your prerogative, luckily those involved in developing and manufacturing the devices don't agree with you.
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