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Old 08-26-2012, 04:19 PM   #91
DrNefario
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It was her first CD.

And as I said above, it might still be good for Baen without being good for Bujold. Baen still have plenty more to sell you, but Bujold only had the one book. (What happened to Spirit Ring? That was Baen, I think. I liked that.)
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Old 08-26-2012, 04:37 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Even if they knew their life's work had been available for free on the internet all along? Again, changing your mind about wanting your life's work to be available on the internet for free is perfectly fine. Misrepresenting the facts about why/where/how your life's work came to be available on the internet for free is not fine—even if you were stressed.
I don't think she ever wanted her life's work on the Internet for free. Why do you think she did?

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Originally Posted by sourcejedi View Post
Ouch.

The quote from Baen's Bar suggests she feels she "acquiesced" to having the CD available online, after the fact. Maybe she didn't read the small print in advance. Maybe she was working from an outdated mental model - home taping, as opposed to bittorrent.

It's not inconceivable someone could go from a politely acknowledging its existence, to deciding to try and take it down.
I think this is probably right, especially about the mental model. She knew that people who bought Cryoburn would get access to her other works. (Still a great deal if Cryoburn was $6...) She likely knew that sharing would be permitted. She may well not have known that "sharing" is a euphemism for making something available to the universe at large, and thus that the right to share doesn't just mean you can give a free copy to your sister; it means that you can put all of her work on the internet for anyone to download for free.

So, yeah, I'm thinking the home taping model.

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Originally Posted by Dahak View Post
The quote was 'The CD-ROM was by explicit permission; the pirate site was by aquiesence.'.

Which I've always found rather fascinating.
"Pirate site" is not accurate, of course - but this term, plus the term "acquiescence" suggests that she wasn't aware of the implications of her agreement.
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If this had been Baen's second or third or fifth CD release, I might be able to accept that the author didn't understand what they were getting into, but this was the nineteenth or twentieth CD release - eight years after their first - with the exact same liberal distribution license.
This doesn't necessarily follow; there's no reason to assume she knew that the availability of a CD with a purchased book means that the contents of the CD would be available to everyone to download for free.

People familiar with digital distribution know that this is true empirically. But if you look at it from her POV, it's isn't particularly *logical.*

I.e.: "People who buy Cryoburn will receive a free copy of all of your previous works" doesn't imply "people who don't buy Cryoburn will also be be entitled to free copies of your previous work."

Similarly, "We are making the first volume of the Vorkosigan Saga available for free download on the site, on the theory that this will induce people to try it and then buy the rest of the books" doesn't imply that "Of course, people can also download the rest of your work for free."

Again, the ability for people to freely share her work permits all of this. But I have no problem seeing why she would believe that things worked differently.

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There's a saying about doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
Yes, but I'm not sure it applies in her case.
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:05 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by DrNefario View Post
It was her first CD.
I agree with you, but note: If you're responding to Dahak, that's not news to him, because he's the guy who posts the CDs. (Many of which I read, so: a belated thank you to Dahak).

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And as I said above, it might still be good for Baen without being good for Bujold. Baen still have plenty more to sell you, but Bujold only had the one book.

(What happened to Spirit Ring? That was Baen, I think)
<googles> So it was! No sequels, if that's your question. DRM-free ebook available at Fictionwise (but not Baen). I hope you're happy; you may have just tricked me into buying it. Curses!
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:19 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Andrew H. View Post
"Pirate site" is not accurate, of course - but this term, plus the term "acquiescence" suggests that she wasn't aware of the implications of her agreement.
You've offered up excuses why you (or anybody) might be sympathetic to her situation. That's fine. But they're not valid reasons why she should get a free pass on the false accusations of piracy—which again... is the single thing with which I take issue. I'm certainly not one who's advocating any kind of boycott (in fact I'm sure I'll read more of her books), I just think she needs to be a big girl and admit she was wrong to call the Fifth Imperium a pirate site (however long ago the statements might have been made). It's what adults do when they screw up and wish to maintain integrity.
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:33 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by sourcejedi View Post
You said that she mentioned your CD site after the Cryoburn CD went up. Did she also mention it before she agreed to the Cryoburn promotional CD?
I have no idea if she was aware of my site - either of them - as I don't follow her posts, as a general rule.

EDIT: I've come across posts of hers claiming to have never heard of my site.

It was always my impression that she's been hostile to the whole concept of the CDs, perhaps even to eBooks, in general. Which is why I was frankly shocked that she allowed a CD to be produced in the first place.

While it would not be impossible, I find it extremely unlikely that she wouldn't be aware of how the Baen CDs were regarded and made available prior to her agreeing to such a liberal distribution license.

Certainly her publisher was aware of it.

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Old 08-26-2012, 08:16 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Dahak View Post
While it would not be impossible, I find it extremely unlikely that she wouldn't be aware of how the Baen CDs were regarded and made available prior to her agreeing to such a liberal distribution license.

Certainly her publisher was aware of it.
And if she wasn't, she needs a more competent agent/lawyer.
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:57 PM   #97
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And if she wasn't, she needs a more competent agent/lawyer.
If you sign a contract and do not have a lawyer go over it and explain it to you, you do not have grounds to cry foul or complain that you are getting ripped off. You can make sure that you pay attention when you sign your next contract.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:58 PM   #98
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The first half is up. There might still be the baen bundle thread going for November.

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I bought the eARC so I have the entire thing.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:55 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Dahak View Post
Certainly her publisher was aware of it.
Whose interests don't necessarily coincide with hers, and who seem to have stopped making any new CDs, suggesting that the landscape has changed.
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:55 AM   #100
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Whose interests don't necessarily coincide with hers, and who seem to have stopped making any new CDs, suggesting that the landscape has changed.
Quite true, although I don't know about the not making new CDs part.

We also have an author who was quite (legitimately) concerned about freebie-ebooks and their impact on future sales rights. And whose evident concerns were so deeply felt that she apparently never inquired about how things went with the previous CDs.

Someone, somewhere convinced her to get on the CD bandwagon.

The second paragraph on the CD's landing page reads: 'What’s the catch? This disk and its contents may be copied and shared, but NOT sold. All commercial rights are reserved. That’s it.'

[As a side note, I noticed that while the more recent Ringo / Weber / Flint CDs do not seem to include that admonition on their landing / orientation pages (but they did have it on their labels), hers did.]

That should have raised all sorts of red flags to someone with any concerns.

Any lawyer / agent should have been all over that like a bad suit.

She should have been all over it like wet on rain. (I couldn't lump her in with the lawyers.)

Did she see the CD prior to release? Who knows. Someone with any doubts really ought to have insisted as much.

She also seems to be of the opinion that 'copy and share, but not sell' means that three copies is quite enough - you can all stop now!

That implies a level of naivete that borders on outright silly.

What we appear to have here is a massive attack of incompetence and / or stupidity on either her part or her agent's.

Neither of them inquired about what happened with the previous dozen and a half CDs?
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:00 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by DrNefario View Post
Whose interests don't necessarily coincide with hers, and who seem to have stopped making any new CDs, suggesting that the landscape has changed.
Which still doesn't give her the right to go around an accuse "random people on the internet" of illegal activities.
What she said is in no way better than what those authors said on twitter when they called lendink a pirate side, she simply didn't go out to the internet at large and kept it to baen's bar.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:53 AM   #102
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Which still doesn't give her the right to go around an accuse "random people on the internet" of illegal activities.
What she said is in no way better than what those authors said on twitter when they called lendink a pirate side, she simply didn't go out to the internet at large and kept it to baen's bar.

Well, actually it is better. She didn't go to fifthimperium's ISP and try to get the site shut down.

Yes, she was wrong to say that it's a pirate site.

But that's the ONLY thing she did wrong.

Please stop trying to inflate this thing to be bigger than it really is.
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:07 PM   #103
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Well, actually it is better. She didn't go to fifthimperium's ISP and try to get the site shut down.
Never said she did. I said what she said was in no way better than what those other people said, I didn't say that what she did was as bad.
I don't really have much of a problem with her asking fithimperium to please take down the CD, though I somehow doubt she used that word. Ideally she should have thought about the consequences of having the CD published with the right to share it, but the first Miles book is still in the free library and you can still get the CD by buying Cryoburn. What i do have a problem with is accusing people of things they aren't guilty of, that helps no one.
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:50 PM   #104
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I registered at the Barns Bar site to read the thread. I think the home taping analogy might be correct. Not sure she fully understood that once something is made available on the net nowadays, it's pretty much going to be available "somewhere" from then on out.

I agree that her piracy allegations were a bit strong and unwarranted, but as others have pointed out, at least she didn't conduct a campaign against the site, although perhaps that could simply be because she was not aware that doing so was an option.

But, I am a bit confused.

I clicked on the link to the baencd.freedoors site, to read the notice. I clicked on the isos of cds link, just to see what was there. There is a cryoburn iso there. I downloaded/extracted it and there appear to be nine full novels.

So what is this file?
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:10 PM   #105
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But, I am a bit confused.

I clicked on the link to the baencd.freedoors site, to read the notice. I clicked on the isos of cds link, just to see what was there. There is a cryoburn iso there. I downloaded/extracted it and there appear to be nine full novels.

So what is this file?
It looks like he took down the browsable version of the CD and forgot to do the ISO, because that's definately the CD we've been talking about.

Last edited by AnemicOak; 08-27-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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