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Old 08-19-2012, 10:06 PM   #16
crescere
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Originally Posted by geekmaster View Post
Some moderators here ARE publishers.
Ok, but why would that preclude the free discussion of DRM? Are you saying that it is NOT legal action, but rather the moderators who forbid people from exchanging ideas and information? If they own the site that is fine because they can do whatever they want with their property, but I am still not clear on why DRM removal discussion is not allowed and who forbids it.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:14 PM   #17
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Google is your friend. I guarantee there's plenty of places where you can find active discussions of DRM, just not here.
Again, why not? Is this one of those things people just do not do and have never questioned? Maybe it is fine to do it, but since everyone says it is not it has never been done.

Are these other discussions that we are not to speak about here in other forums? Can you tell me where they are? I am not trying to be rude I just do not understand it when there is reluctance to speak freely on ANY issue.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crescere View Post
Again, why not? Is this one of those things people just do not do and have never questioned? Maybe it is fine to do it, but since everyone says it is not it has never been done.

Are these other discussions that we are not to speak about here in other forums? Can you tell me where they are? I am not trying to be rude I just do not understand it when there is reluctance to speak freely on ANY issue.
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/faq...ing_guidelines

... then read the first 3 posts of this thread again, and you'll see that it fits exactly.

Last edited by ixtab; 08-19-2012 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:50 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by crescere View Post
Again, why not? Is this one of those things people just do not do and have never questioned? Maybe it is fine to do it, but since everyone says it is not it has never been done.

Are these other discussions that we are not to speak about here in other forums? Can you tell me where they are? I am not trying to be rude I just do not understand it when there is reluctance to speak freely on ANY issue.
You've pitched a tent on my front lawn. I step out of the house and yell, "Get off of my lawn!"

Do you respond... "Why not? Show me a deed with your name on it. Maybe it is fine for me to camp on your lawn."
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crescere View Post
In a free society people should be allowed to discuss almost any topic. Certainly they should be advised that removing DRM in some instances is wrong, but I cannot imagine many scenarios where ignorance of any topic is good. I am an American where we have a Constitution and free speech. I guess I should be more aware that the rest of the world does not have the same view of freedom as I.
You should be aware that America has the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which makes it illegal to "manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof".

It is because of the DMCA that DRM removal instructions are not permitted on MobileRead.

But, you'll say, the DMCA also says "Nothing in this section shall enlarge or diminish any rights of free speech or the press for activities using consumer electronics, telecommunications, or computing products.". Whoop-de-woo. Unfortunately (but wisely) the owner of MobileRead isn't willing to take the risk of being prosecuted or perhaps arrested and jailed on visits to the US. (See Dmitry Sklyarov.)
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:43 PM   #21
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The bottom line is that MobileRead is a private forum, with owners that are free to choose whichever rules they feel like. This is not a free speech forum nor is it an unmoderated mad-house. Since MobileRead has decided that DRM methods and discussions are not something it wishes to host, we are then free to abide by the rules or go elsewhere. Has nothing at all to do with your right to stand on the street corner and debate DRM with anyone who wishes to join in.
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:43 PM   #22
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The reasons I want to copy is so that I can view MY azw files on MY tablet. Many of the books have graphs, charts, and diagrams that I can best read on the larger tablet.

If the owners of the site have decided they do not want to have these discussions it is certainly their right. However, I question as to how much danger they would be in for merely hosting a site that described how to remove DRM. If they offered to do the service I could see that may be a problem. Unless you are discussing the how, why, and where of a terrorist act I just do not see how mere internet chat is a problem.

But yes I will certainly comply if this is what the owners of the forum want.

Last edited by crescere; 08-20-2012 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:12 PM   #23
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It is what they want. Long ago I took the advice "google Apprentice Alf," and all is good in my ebook life. My ebooks are liberated the moment they hit Calibre, and I can then put them on any of my devices.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:19 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crescere View Post
Why should I be at risk for getting banned from a forum for merely expressing my opinion and asking a question?

In a free society people should be allowed to discuss almost any topic.
And yet you told Harry T to mind his own business. So free speech is only for you and people that agree with your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crescere View Post
I am an American where we have a Constitution and free speech. I guess I should be more aware that the rest of the world does not have the same view of freedom as I.
That is so embarrassing.

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Thank you all for your comments. I withdraw from the thread.
And yet you are still here
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:15 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by crescere View Post
I am an American where we have a Constitution and free speech. I guess I should be more aware that the rest of the world does not have the same view of freedom as I.


Poor boy for believing in that.
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:14 PM   #26
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Yes you have me there especially with our current administration.

I was upset because I saw Harry as someone who comes in to the room when I am watching TV, and just as the movie is good they change the channel. I did not know that he was enforcing a preexisting rule.
Wow Crescere, you really are not vying for the Ms Congeniality award. First you breach a forum rule, then you are rude to a moderator and now, just to make sure there is no-one you have not offended, you make a ridiculous partisan political attack on the current US administration. Do you kick puppies and beat up grandmothers too?

Seriously, this is a forum about e-books. It is full of helpful intelligent people. It is a great asset for enriching your e-reading experience. You may not like the rules but it is their rules which they put in place to keep from getting sued and if you are going to play in their sandbox you have no choice. Why not leave the politics and the rudeness out going forward and enjoy the this forum for what it is?
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:14 PM   #27
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Although this thread seems to have been hijacked a bit I would just like to say thanks to the people who gave advice re DRM. I would like to make clear that I was freely given the book by my friend...I know that digital stuff is not lehgally allowed to be "freely given" in the same way as paper books. But my conscience is clear. I was only wanting to know the technical answer or be posted to a helpful link.

There seems to be plenty of software to help you un-DRM a book that you have bought yourself. My friend could easily use this to convert to an ordinary mobi. However, she is not technical or interested in downloading the software necessary.

So my question was - technically - does software exist that can un-drm books that you acquire but have not personally bought? The answer seems to be "No", but obviously open to any enlightenment.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:50 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Acousticvillage View Post
Although this thread seems to have been hijacked a bit I would just like to say thanks to the people who gave advice re DRM. I would like to make clear that I was freely given the book by my friend...I know that digital stuff is not lehgally allowed to be "freely given" in the same way as paper books. But my conscience is clear. I was only wanting to know the technical answer or be posted to a helpful link.

There seems to be plenty of software to help you un-DRM a book that you have bought yourself. My friend could easily use this to convert to an ordinary mobi. However, she is not technical or interested in downloading the software necessary.

So my question was - technically - does software exist that can un-drm books that you acquire but have not personally bought? The answer seems to be "No", but obviously open to any enlightenment.
No - I already gave you the technical reason in the first reply. The real world isn't like NCIS, where encryptions are cracked in minutes. To brute-force the decryption of a DRM'ed book without having the key would probably take a couple of million years on average.

Last edited by ixtab; 08-22-2012 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:10 AM   #29
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The programs that un-DRM stuff need to use the encryption key that can only be extracted from a device that "owns" the media to be decrypted. As ixtab said, brute-forcing a decryption key is not a realistic objective unless the encryption was badly broken to begin with (which is what Dmitry Skylarov was detained for, as mentioned above).

So realistically, only the OWNER of encrypted media (or "licensee" depending on how you look at it) can decrypt DRMed media (for their own personal use). Distributing that decrypted media to others would be morally decadent and/or illegal.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:34 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by crescere View Post
The reasons I want to copy is so that I can view MY azw files on MY tablet. Many of the books have graphs, charts, and diagrams that I can best read on the larger tablet.
Get the Kindle app for whatever tablet you have. You will be able to download any of your Kindle books to that tablet.
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