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View Poll Results: Should 'anything go'?
yes 38 45.24%
no 19 22.62%
depends 27 32.14%
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:27 AM   #121
gmw
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Originally Posted by VydorScope View Post
I guess since I am not a consumer of any of these, I could be way off base, but I always thought the terms rather meant a range.

Soooo...

Romance - The primary story is about the relationships, and interactions. Sexual activities are just one optional factor in that.

Erotica - The primary story is still mainly about the relationships, but the sexual activity becomes a major player in the plot.

Porn - There may or may not even be a relationship, or much of a story, as the primary focus is on the sexual activities.
Yup, that's pretty much the way I see it too. The subjective factor comes merely in where you draw the lines. For some there is no middle ground (erotica), and for others there may be no such thing as porn or romance (although I think that would be very difficult to justify).
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:28 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by VydorScope View Post
I guess since I am not a consumer of any of these, I could be way off base, but I always thought the terms rather meant a range.

Soooo...

Romance - The primary story is about the relationships, and interactions. Sexual activities are just one optional factor in that.

Erotica - The primary story is still mainly about the relationships, but the sexual activity becomes a major player in the plot.

Porn - There may or may not even be a relationship, or much of a story, as the primary focus is on the sexual activities.
These make a lot of sense to me as well.
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:02 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by VydorScope View Post
Romance - The primary story is about the relationships, and interactions. Sexual activities are just one optional factor in that.

Erotica - The primary story is still mainly about the relationships, but the sexual activity becomes a major player in the plot.

Porn - There may or may not even be a relationship, or much of a story, as the primary focus is on the sexual activities.
If there's a strong focus is on sexual activities, *and* there's a strong plot and romantic relationship, where does it fall? How do you identify a book's "primary focus?"

I don't exactly disagree with those distinctions, but I don't think they're useful at all. Fanfic has a lot of what we call "PWP"--porn without plot--but the focus is on the characters and their relationship; the stories are focused on the personalities involved and how those are expressed through sex. There may not be a plot, or there may be a thin one ("it's Character A's birthday; Character B wakes up A with surprise birthday sex"), but it's obvious the main story is the sex.

However, the story is *about* the characters--how they deal with sensuality, how they relate to each other, what they like or don't like, whether they're responsive, or dominant, or energetic, or perceptive, or vulnerable, or mischievous, or something else.

We call it "porn" but it's nothing like mainstream "porn" literature. And while we sense a difference, we can't point to anything objective and say, "this, THIS, is what makes Fanfic Story X 'erotica' and Mainstream Lurid Novel Y 'porn'."

And we're *really* not sure whether to call things "romance" or not. Does it stop being "romance" if there's enough explicit sex involved? Is the label an identifier of the contents, or the intended readership?
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:40 PM   #124
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Not to put anyone on the spot, but if any of you read a lot of erotica, do you think it affects how you view other people--perhaps it causes you to think a lot more about whether or not people are sexually appealing, perhaps it causes you to objectify people more often, perhaps you find yourself more often thinking about how people could sexually satisfy you, etc? If so, do you like the way it affects you? If it doesn't affect the way you view other people, what does affect your viewpoint? Or is there some other way to think about this altogether?
An interesting question! Though I don't exactly "scarf down" erotica like Big Macs, I've read it and watched it over the years. And over the years, I've developed a way to compartmentalize erotica separately from "real life." Erotica is something that applies solely to itself: It is a fiction, acted out by characters that don't exist, or actors/actresses playing a role for money. It does not apply to "real life."

I've used this method to train myself to specifically not look at or think of people I know or are acquainted with in terms of eros; I only think erotic thoughts directed at fictional characters or people who intentionally present themselves as erotic objects.
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Old 08-21-2012, 02:04 PM   #125
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yes, I too don't like it. It annoys me to think that mankind's most utterly lame perversions can be sold in convenience stores for a few bucks. What next? "The adventures of Pedophile Phil in Disneyland"? "Dick Dictator's secret garden of torture"?

sadly, I think it's only the beginning. Videogames will eventually evolve into VR and if you've watched "Minority Report", there was this lame scene of an old pervert getting his kick in a VR machine...

all in the name of money and keeping perverts from actually doing more than just fantasising...
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:57 PM   #126
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An interesting question! Though I don't exactly "scarf down" erotica like Big Macs, I've read it and watched it over the years. And over the years, I've developed a way to compartmentalize erotica separately from "real life." Erotica is something that applies solely to itself: It is a fiction, acted out by characters that don't exist, or actors/actresses playing a role for money. It does not apply to "real life."

I've used this method to train myself to specifically not look at or think of people I know or are acquainted with in terms of eros; I only think erotic thoughts directed at fictional characters or people who intentionally present themselves as erotic objects.
Interesting. I know longer read romances and/or erotic books/magazines due to age and thyroid problems (just totally lost interest).

When I did I rarely had much personal interest in the characters or seek out specific authors. I enjoyed the books, but out of sight, out of mind.

With other books (mystery/fantasy/science fiction/espionage etc.) I often did have an ongoing interest in the characters and would hope for a sequel or twenty. I have even been in the position of not wanting to continue reading a series after a long term supporting character was killed. Silly I know.

Romance and erotic scenes will not put me off a book or a series, but if that is all there is I will rarely finish the book.

Helen
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:51 PM   #127
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all in the name of money and keeping perverts from actually doing more than just fantasising...
I'm not sure why that's a bad thing: "Perverts" don't bother anyone but themselves, and someone else gets paid to provide that service...
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:19 AM   #128
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When I'm in the convenience store, I seldom take notice of the adult magazines. I'm in there for a soda or perhaps a delicious microwaved sandwich.
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:18 AM   #129
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If you feel passionately about it, don't support it by doing business with Amazon. There is, sadly, a market for all sorts of flith. Amazon is a business, and when the financial pressure to NOT sell certain types of goods is greater than the financial rewards of selling it, then the problem will solve itself. I don't see any legitimate reason to involve the state and force to dictate what sorts of things one party sells to another in a consentual and therefore mutually satisfactory exchange. What business is it of the masses? But if you feel that your support for Amazon supports the other material that they sell, the obvious recourse is stop supporting Amazon. Your conscience should be clear at that point as you have nothing to do with their activities at that point.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:57 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Namekuseijin View Post
yes, I too don't like it. It annoys me to think that mankind's most utterly lame perversions can be sold in convenience stores for a few bucks. What next? "The adventures of Pedophile Phil in Disneyland"? "Dick Dictator's secret garden of torture"?

sadly, I think it's only the beginning....
Don't know if it's been mentioned, but friggin' Dexter and Breaking Bad. That sort of sh*t is way more harmful than porn imo, am I a prude?
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:34 AM   #131
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When I'm in the convenience store, I seldom take notice of the adult magazines. I'm in there for a soda or perhaps a delicious microwaved sandwich.
I'd sooner buy the adult magazine.

Last edited by Steven Lyle Jordan; 08-22-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:40 AM   #132
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Don't know if it's been mentioned, but friggin' Dexter and Breaking Bad. That sort of sh*t is way more harmful than porn imo, am I a prude?
Not if--as has been said before--you don't watch. It's the equivalent of "shock-jock" radio IMO, but what makes it acceptable is that no one's forcing you to tune in. Hate it and walk away.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:30 AM   #133
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Don't know if it's been mentioned, but friggin' Dexter and Breaking Bad. That sort of sh*t is way more harmful than porn imo, am I a prude?
Dexter yes, Breaking Bad not so much. I think the difference is in the evaluation of the various characters' deeds. Breaking Bad makes a clear case against a descent into crime and depravity and against using the ends to justify the means. Dexter makes an argument for a double-life and ends-justifying-means violence.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:10 PM   #134
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Don't know if it's been mentioned, but friggin' Dexter and Breaking Bad. That sort of sh*t is way more harmful than porn imo, am I a prude?
Perhaps.

I found Dexter disturbing in the same way I find Serge Storms disturbing. Not the violence or the vengeance, but the need to make the killer aware they are being killed in a gruesome manner for their past misdeeds.

Obviously I am a prude in that I don't like mental or physical torture even if the torturee is deserving of it in the protaganoists viewpoint.

I only watched two episodes of Dexter but I don't see it as any worse than your average thriller cut and slash movie. Probably no worse than the evil doll Chucky although I would have a hard time taking Chucky seriously..

Helen

Ps I am also a prude because I don't like Saws or Halloween type movies, but I don't actually see them or Dexter as harmful to a half way normal person or even to society as a whole.

Helen
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:25 PM   #135
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Not if--as has been said before--you don't watch. It's the equivalent of "shock-jock" radio IMO, but what makes it acceptable is that no one's forcing you to tune in. Hate it and walk away.
Yeah, but I have to live in the society of people that do watch! I know you said these things don't impact your "real" life, but I don't think that's true of most people.
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