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View Poll Results: Should 'anything go'?
yes 38 45.24%
no 19 22.62%
depends 27 32.14%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-11-2012, 10:11 AM   #31
Elfwreck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvReadin View Post
The difference here is that it's relatively easy to filter out books containing specific religious keywords without having much of an effect on non-religious books, and also Amazon has a specific category for religion, so it's easy to ignore them completely if necessary.
I've found this is not true; not all books with strong religious themes are labeled "religion." Especially, books promoting Christianity are thrown into all sorts of categories, because the authors think Christianity is some kind of "default" state that doesn't need to be mentioned.

Quote:
It's a lot harder to remove books of the type the OP mentions because there isn't any category for 'erotica', so even if I filter by words such as 'erotica' and 'sex', say, it means that many self-help and biology books will be removed, whereas many erotic books won't be touched at all. It would make far more sense to give those books a category of their own.
Amazon does indeed have a category for erotica, so I'm not sure what the issue is here.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:17 AM   #32
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I'm reading these posts and I'm getting the same hints that I get from people who don't like romance: you're not able to say the difference between reality and fiction. And really, if a children under 7 stumble over an erotica or killing books, I blame their fathers who allow it, no Amazon. And, perhaps, there's a cathegory for religion but, if I'm looking for title, "Love" appears in a lot of religious title... and I'm not looking for that.
BTW, if somebody expects BDSM in "Moon is a harsh mistress" is going to be a bit disappointd, the same than in "50 shades of grey"

Last edited by Terisa de morgan; 08-12-2012 at 05:31 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:46 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Well, that must mean that Geico insurance has a much better product as they don't need sex to sell it. They just use a gecko to sell their insurance.
Either that or ther are a lot of warped people out there buying insurance.
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:34 AM   #34
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Seems to be enough examples here that one person's acceptable reading is another person's trash; which is why blanket censorship doesn't work. Examples of life imitating art are another matter entirely, and indicative more of a problem with people than a problem with literature (because people who wish to cause mayhem can get inspiration from any number of sources).

Set your own opinion, let others call you a prude, crazy, degenerate, whatever... but all you can do is decide what's good for you, and let others decide for themselves.
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:54 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan View Post
. And really, if a children under 7 stumble over an erotica or killing books, I blame their fathers who allow it, no Amazon.

THIS.

Parents need to step up and be adults. If my 8 year old is mucking around places I do not want him, that is MY problem to solve. Amazon is not raising my child, I am. I am the one that is deciding what is right and not right for my son, and I am the one with the responsibility to enforce it.
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Old 08-11-2012, 12:05 PM   #36
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This reminds of the parents who wanted certain comics removed from Borders because their unattended children were looking at them while the parents were off shopping somewhere else.
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Old 08-11-2012, 01:55 PM   #37
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Hemmingway in For Whom The Bell Tolls tells a Russian parable that goes something like, 'There are two types of idots in Russia; the summer idiot and the winter idiot. The summer idiot comes to your door and you see is an idiot. The winter idiot comes to your door wearing a coat and covered in snow so you say come in it is cold outside. The idiot brushes off the snow, takes off his coat, sweater and boot and you see he is an idiot.'

Censorship is like giving an idiot a coat. The more there is the less of person's true charcter is seen. This is why dictiorial nations take away freedom of the press and free speach. If we have to put up with smut - however amoral - to save us from the type of opression happening in Syria and has happen in so many other country that endorce censorship so be it.

I also wish there was a way to fight agianst war without continuing the fight by using that word. War is so much more repugnat and abhorent than any pornography but we continue to glorify it with statment like the 'greatest generation' why? Because tens of millions of people die during their shift? Or because they had to be heroic to squash the evil? How about a generation be great because they got along... because there is no evil to fight? I find it ironic that Ragen (sp) was idiolized for ending the cold war by escliating it and beleiving in the end of the world. But Gobcheve (sp) a man who in a nuclear readyness test could not bring himself to launch a SIMULATED retaliory attack on the US is seen in a lesser light as the man who capitualted and is therefore week.

Anyhow, I'm not saying we should ban books about war.

Augustjen: When I feel a need to help the world with the many problem created by life that have caused people to become for lack of a better word 'broken', I volunteer. I feel helping with alcoholic and addicts is a better way to stop the cycle of 'broken people' doing abhorent things. I know this sound trite but when a person who is a life time criminal, alcoholic, or addict says, 'I don't know any other way,' it is becasue they don't.

Have fun, Jan
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:17 PM   #38
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I confirm, you are indeed a prude
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:14 AM   #39
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This is a discussion right?

Defending what is written without censor is a noble cause, right?

Defending the right of free speech, together with our right to free thought, are also right?

For those that are interested, I found this old (5 years) podcast, I don't think much has been in 5 years, except of course the meteoric rise of ibooks. http://www.nolocast.com/?p=73

I am tired of having to be proactive for the sake of our security (airports included). Why should there be a need for parents to supervise their kids? What a great concept it would be for a parent to be worry-free for a change, instead of them having to be vigilant.
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:21 AM   #40
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I don't know... I can't even find these things now that I'm looking for them to see what it's all about, so how easy would they be to just stumble over?
I do think they should be labelled, but to be perfectly honest, labelling erotica and putting it in a special category really makes life easy for the young, curious teenager, doesn't it?! There are always two sides of everything.

I do understand your concerns about this kind of content (child porn) can trigger someone to live out the fantasy, but I doubt there is any more risk with these books than a large number of Criminal Minds episodes. Neither will "inspire" a sound person to commit horrible crimes, but both can inspire someone sick to live out their fantasy.

Speaking of stumbling over "surprising" content... This is what happened to me many years ago (last millenium...): I do machine embroidery and the software I used back then is called PE Design, often just referred to as PED. This was back in the early days of file sharing, and out of curiousity I put "PED" in the search field, and what came up was the most disgusting list I had ever seen! I saw the first few titles (along the lines of the OP book titles), screamed out, powered off the computer in panic (completely irrational!), and just stood staring at it before finally turning it back on making sure none of that crap was actually on my computer...
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:27 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by augustjen View Post

I am tired of having to be proactive for the sake of our security (airports included). Why should there be a need for parents to supervise their kids? What a great concept it would be for a parent to be worry-free for a change, instead of them having to be vigilant.

not to be a you know what, but they're YOUR kids. not mine, not your neighbors, not the guy in the next states, YOURS. and what one parent thinks is disgusting another parent is perfectly ok with. as a 34 year old man i am sick to death of nearly every entertainment media being butchered and watered down until it is fit for the consumption of children. i am an adult and i want adult situations (not meaning porn per se), language and concepts in my media. 99% of modern tv is unwatchable because of how bland and inoffensive it is. modern radio is unlistenable because ned flanders has replaced the "shock jocks" i grew up with. the government is continually on the backs of video games i enjoy because of the violence. the government got on the back of music i enjoy. even sports have been neutered to be "family friendly".when does it end? when are adults allowed to be adults and enjoy the things that adults enjoy? i want to be left alone by every single moralist and every 2 bit politician that thinks they know what's best for me or "the children". i don't tell anybody else how to live nor do i want to be told how to live.

"The whole principle is wrong; it's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't eat steak." Robert A Heinlein
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:48 AM   #42
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Could there be a possibility, that this apparent murderer would have read this book if he stumbled upon it? If he had read this book, or one like it, could this have tipped him over the edge?
i am a very unorthodox man. one could say that i'm not exactly the most sane individual walking this planet. i enjoy horror. i watch horror movies and read horror novels. i watch videos online that would shock just about 99% of the populace, in terms of both violence and pornography, to their very core. i play violent video games while blasting slayer and cannibal corpse. i'm an athiest. i even own books like mein kampf and the turner diaries (not out of any love/support of the subject matter, simply to support free speech and the right of unpopular ideas to be printed/on the market).

knowing this, and knowing i'm not the sanest person around, i've made it 34 years of life without ever even being in a fist fight. i tear up at commercials of abused animals. i am a 6', 300lb man with tattoos and a shaved head (i look like a biker) and the other day i sat openly weeping while reading a facebook story about a shelter dog playing with a new toy that was donated. i donate to charity. i donate books to library sales. i don't cheat on my wife. i don't drink, gamble, smoke or do drugs. i'm an all around decent guy considering what i consume for entertainment. if anything my entertainments have made me truly appreciate life and how fragile it is. i abhor real life violence.

what i would call somebody who is inspired to commit atrocity by something they read/see/hear is evil. a bad seed. those are words society doesn't use anymore because we're too politically correct to admit and acknowledge that cancerous cells exist amongst this body of humanity. we think that everybody can be "fixed". there are people out there who are simply bad from day 1; they are born feral. certain entertainments may enforce the twisted ideas these individuals already have but even amongst the most peaceful societies, there are still sick, twisted nuts and we simply can't operate a society based on the assumption that we're all murderous child rapers just waiting to explode. i like to give this species a tad more credit than that.

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Old 08-12-2012, 08:42 AM   #43
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What a great concept it would be for a parent to be worry-free for a change, instead of them having to be vigilant.
So you're a fantasy fan, then?
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:20 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by augustjen View Post
I am tired of having to be proactive for the sake of our security (airports included). Why should there be a need for parents to supervise their kids? What a great concept it would be for a parent to be worry-free for a change, instead of them having to be vigilant.
I take it you don't have children yourself, and are speaking on behalf of other people? Because I've never heard any parent say "why should I need to supervise my kid." And the idea of "worry-free parenting" ... There is no "worry-free." There is a scale of worry that stretches between "slightly nervous" and "acute paranoia," which lasts from approximately three months before birth until the kid's twenty-fifth birthday, at which point it settles down a bit. Usually.

I am delighted at the idea of of crowdsourcing some public-area supervision, in part because I'd get exhausted otherwise, and in part because it makes children neurotic to get ALL THEIR INFLUENCE from a single source. We're tribal, social creatures; children need to be raised in the context of a community, not as objects belonging to a single person or couple.

Yes, it's important to be able to go to a supermarket and let the kid learn to see what's available and discuss choices. And at some point, the kid should have enough autonomy to not be within 3 feet of the parent, and if the kid's half an aisle ahead, and grabs a box of cake mix and starts to open it, it's very nice if someone else snags it out of their hand and says "no, you can't eat that now; it has to be paid for first." I get a break from WATCH KID ALL THE TIME, and Kid learns that I'm not the only authority figure in the universe and other people will and are allowed to limit his or her behavior.

However, "we need appropriate public behavior guidelines in regards to minors" (and despite what the law says, those standards need to be different for 2-year-olds and 15-year-olds) is not the same as "it's your job to decide what it's appropriate for my kids to see or do, and restrict ALL children to the level of autonomy that you've decided is reasonable for 8-year-olds."

The fact that I expect other adults in public to be willing to yell, "out of the way!" if a runaway shopping cart is about to smash into my kid, doesn't mean I want that same adult to decide what my kid's reading level is and what appropriate reading material is.

Strangers in public are welcome to prevent my kid from fingerpainting with laundry supplies in the grocery store. They're not welcome to decide what my kids should be reading. I sincerely hope that other parents feel the same--that they'd be happy for me to pry their toddlers off the shelves, and would prefer I didn't hand them religious tracts while I did so.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:17 PM   #45
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I think it's interesting that just about all other types of media (movies, TV, music, comic books) all have Content Advisory labels on them. Not for censorship purposes, but simply to inform a prospective reader/view on what the work may contain, so that they can decide for themselves if its' something that would potentially turn them off, or if it's something that, in fact, does interest them.

Since books dont' have that type of label...I've actually taken to inserting my own. [promotion removed - moderator]

Content Advisory: This book is intended for mature audiences and contains graphic violence, explicit sexual activity and disturbing imagery

I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe in giving people the right tools to make an informed decision about what they buy or read or watch. As much as i would love to sell a billion copies of my book...I'd rather have the right reader find the right kind of book for them. And I think a simple content advisory is a step in the right direction.

But that's just me.

Last edited by dreams; 08-12-2012 at 04:48 PM. Reason: [promotion removed - moderator]
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