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View Poll Results: Should 'anything go'?
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:55 PM   #136
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I actually have a hard time with the gore-slasher genre as well, because it also tends towards a dehumanization of the victim in a way that, say, The Shining did not. At least The Shining presented the victims of terror as people rather than bags of meat, ripped apart for the viewer's delight.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:52 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
A plot's a plot, no matter how thin. "Porn" stories do often have plots, and they may not be War and Peace, but they still count. About the only kind of porn that has "no plot" is probably a video that starts at the beginning of copulation, ends at the "money shot," and has no dialogue in-between (other than moans). And even that can be said to have a plot, be it as simple as "two (or more) people strive to find common pleasure through sex."

I agree that there's no real distinction between porn and erotica. One is a word to denote acceptable material, and the other is a word used to denote unacceptable material. Which word you use for which behavior wholly depends on the individual's point of view.
There is in some jurisdictions, a legal definition. Where I live erotica is simply an adult (hopefully) choice regarding something that might be sexually stimulating when it comes to art or literature, whereas pornography is defined and controlled under criminal law. There have been a number of relatively high profile court cases related to deciding whether something is pornographic or simply erotic. Lady Chatterly's lover was once porn, banned as such, now it is erotica. Most of the Maquis de Sade's work is still porn. In video, porn has an XXXX rating, erotica, just a PG or Adult rating. They are not the same.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:12 AM   #138
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There is in some jurisdictions, a legal definition. Where I live erotica is simply an adult (hopefully) choice regarding something that might be sexually stimulating when it comes to art or literature, whereas pornography is defined and controlled under criminal law. There have been a number of relatively high profile court cases related to deciding whether something is pornographic or simply erotic. Lady Chatterly's lover was once porn, banned as such, now it is erotica. Most of the Maquis de Sade's work is still porn. In video, porn has an XXXX rating, erotica, just a PG or Adult rating. They are not the same.
As you indicated with the Lady Chatterly example, and the many cases set to answer the question, the definition is clearly a moving target, and dependent on the attitudes of the day. That essentially means whatever is in the lawbooks, the real legal definition is: "We'll decide what it is when you ask us."

When used to restrict content to minors, I suppose that's as workable a system as any. Not sure how much good it does to adults, but that's because I believe all adults can and should decide for themselves what is acceptable.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:51 PM   #139
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Ran across this in the news today and thought it was relevant to the discussion over whether or not erotic literature affects sexual behavior.

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/l...rned-1-4857055

Disregarding the question of censorship and banning or burning books, which I do not support, I thought the relevant quote to our discussion was the sexual aid retailer who noted (at the end of the article) the increase in sales of blindfolds, restraints, whips & crops, etc. This seems to be a pretty fair bit of anecdotal support for the idea that sexual literature affects people's sexual behavior.
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:16 PM   #140
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Does it? It could be that if those customers were already sexually experimentive, they were merely introduced to new toys to support an existing habit. For those people, I'd say their behavior was not changed, any more than the person who learned a new word from reading a book and started using it himself had changed their behavior.

Not to mention the fact that buying the toys doesn't mean that they'll be used. The partner could easily refuse to participate, and that's a lot of blindfolds, whips and such in the trash.

Anyway, that's a devil's advocate argument, take it as you like.
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:23 PM   #141
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Quote:
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Does it? It could be that if those customers were already sexually experimentive, they were merely introduced to new toys to support an existing habit. For those people, I'd say their behavior was not changed, any more than the person who learned a new word from reading a book and started using it himself had changed their behavior.

Not to mention the fact that buying the toys doesn't mean that they'll be used. The partner could easily refuse to participate, and that's a lot of blindfolds, whips and such in the trash.

Anyway, that's a devil's advocate argument, take it as you like.
Its a bit silly cause this thread pretty much is...

Jane read <book> and did <action> so book influenced her.

vs

Jane read <book> and did <action> but she would have anyways.

That can never be resolved in the SPECIFIC case like that.

In the general case if <book> comes out promoting <stuff> and suddenly <stuff> is more popular for a non-trivial sample, then it is reasonable to state that <book> influenced the population with regard to <stuff>. That is the basic premise behind this kind of research.
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:19 PM   #142
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Im with Steven on that, because there's always the subjective factor of how high the libido and wish to try things and new ways of playing in a person is.
What's if $_book's only "achievement" is to drag something out of taboo into open discussion?
When both parts come to conclusion "always wanted to try out but never knew if I'd alienate you with the idea?" then you can hardly speak about influence because the wishes predate the book.
But even putting this aside. What's wrong with books widening someones perspective on a topic?
Should it be wrong just because the topic is sexuality? Why should be a book teaching values of honor, honesty etc. be "good" but one showing how to better enjoy ones own and the partners sexual actions and how to deliver more intensive sexual enjoyment to said partner be "evil"? I truly hope it's not the intended goal. Ignorance and misinformation about sexual matters has already created a lot of pain in the past.
E.g. people were told by self-proclaimed "sexperts" that disabled, minors or women (in historically reverse chronological order) have no own sexuality at all. They have been told that plethora of natural behaviour is "ill" "bad" or "unhealthy". All this with disastrous consequences to mental health or plain well-being of them.
Sexuality is an integral part of us. Keeping people dumbed down about it certainly doesn't no good to them.
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:25 PM   #143
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I never said anything was bad, I just said it had an influence. Seems that you keep looking for it to be bad?
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:55 PM   #144
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I never said anything was bad, I just said it had an influence. Seems that you keep looking for it to be bad?
Sorry should have been clearer.
Steven responded to djulian because he submitted said link. What I aimed at is the general idea of influence and that especially sexual topics should be filtered.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:28 PM   #145
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...For those people, I'd say their behavior was not changed, any more than the person who learned a new word from reading a book and started using it himself had changed their behavior.
I think using a new word qualifies as changed behavior. If doing something new doesn't qualify as a change in behavior, I don't know what does.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:06 AM   #146
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I think using a new word qualifies as changed behavior. If doing something new doesn't qualify as a change in behavior, I don't know what does.
All a matter of degree, I suppose. If I'm introduced to a new word or phrase (which, at my age, seems to happen every other week) and I start using it, I don't consider that a change in behavior, just an alteration to vocabulary. If I always use new words when I learn them, that IS my established behavior. Anyway, it was just a minor semantic point.

And I agree with Freeshadow that bringing a subject out into open discussion is always a good thing.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:19 AM   #147
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To summarize...

I think that pretty much everyone on this thread is against government censorship, but would like to be able to control filtering at the personal level. Whether it is sex, violence, religion or my little pony, mature adults should be able make a decision for themselves and their children.

I am personally fully convinced that what you read impacts you (negative and positive) and gave several posts with supporting evidence (Advertising, Propaganda, etc) and some disagree on that. That is fine, not going to debate in circles on that one.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:04 PM   #148
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Oh yeah?!? Well... I...

er, uh... that is...

m-yeh, okay.

(Mmm... maybe I'll head over to the "all writers need editors" thread...)
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:38 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djulian View Post
I thought the relevant quote to our discussion was the sexual aid retailer who noted (at the end of the article) the increase in sales of blindfolds, restraints, whips & crops, etc. This seems to be a pretty fair bit of anecdotal support for the idea that sexual literature affects people's sexual behavior.
ANY literature can "affect behavior," by that standard. Why single out erotic literature as noteworthy?

Shops that sell photography books, postcards and magazines and also camera equipment, notice that people who buy the magazines often come back to buy a camera later. Comic book stores also sell figurines, plastic "blaster" guns, masks and capes. That doesn't mean the readers are trying to become superheroes.

Shall we ban murder mysteries, or remove them from public searches in ebook stores, because some Sherlock Holmes fans buy pipes, hats and trenchcoats?
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:22 PM   #150
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When I was a young girl, my mother objected to my reading so many mysteries, because she was afraid it would affect my view of humanity.

It did. At 62, I still have the unreasonable sense that justice will always happen, in some form or another.
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