With the cloud you don't own anything

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Since we had heated discussions regarding local, on-device storage lately (with many advocating that you don't need much local storage because you can stream everything), here are the words of the great Woz on this subject:

But with much on device storage you still have to backup your data. In the same way that you have to backup data you put in the cloud. So I do not see this as an argument for much local storage at all.

[Asawi]

I would never ever trust cloud storage to keep my stuff safe. I will always back up everything on local storage. Usually in more than one place, at least the imprtant stuff.

HOWEVER, I don't need lots of storage on every device. I could easily get by on, for example, the 16 GB Nexus tablet. No problem what-so-ever! Not because I rely on cloud or streaming, but because I wouldn't need to store much data on that kind of device.

[DiapDealer]

Hey you... get off of my cloud.

[ilovejedd]

One reason I like Dropbox. It's a syncing service. All my content are on all my computers. It just so happens I also have a copy of that content on Dropbox's servers (well, technically, Amazon, I guess).

CrashPlan's also pretty interesting, as far as offsite back-ups are concerned.

[WillysJeepMan]

The "cloud" is nothing new. Back-in-the-day(c) before personal computers, we had mainframe computers that sat in a separate room/building controlled by an elite team. They determined what you could do with (supposedly) your data. They also determined what applications you were allowed to run.

Here we are 30+ years later and we're going back to the future. User data is more and more being physically taken out of the hands of the user, and "ecosystems" are restricting what applications will be permitted to be used.

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

One reason I like Dropbox. It's a syncing service. All my content are on all my computers. It just so happens I also have a copy of that content on Dropbox's servers (well, technically, Amazon, I guess).

CrashPlan's also pretty interesting, as far as offsite back-ups are concerned.

Be careful with DropBox... if the only place that those documents are physically stored is in your local dropbox folder, then all it takes is for Dropbox to delete the files from their server and .... BAM... your local copy is gone the next time you sync.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by David Munch

It really depends on where you live. No matter how nazi an EULA is, it doesn't count at all in a court, here in Denmark. Companies have to follow danish laws for data and privacy protection, and not their own made up rules.

Are the danish courts going to pay to keep a cloud server going if the company goes out of business? Who indemnifies the victim if soem kind of trade secret stored in the cloud is stolen by an employee of the cloud company? Once the damage is done, it's done, and some bells can't be unrung.

The cloud is a tool, but not the only tool of all tools. There are times and places for it, but Woz is correct: if it's not on your computer, it's not really yours.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

One reason I like Dropbox. It's a syncing service. All my content are on all my computers. It just so happens I also have a copy of that content on Dropbox's servers (well, technically, Amazon, I guess).

I use DropBox a fair amount and am a big fan, but I also make sure to have a separate backup copy (or two) of everything on DropBox.

[Prestidigitweeze]

It seems the conversation wants to be about storage alone, but the OP is also commenting on the commercial cloud's inherent lack of privacy and, often, presumed ownership of your data.

[BWinmill]

There are at least two issues: one is the confidentiality of your data. You have to examine the contract to see who owns the data (are you transferring rights to them to any degree), to see if they maintain any data that you delete, and to see how much responsibility they will accept for security breaches. If your data is important, it should be handled by a contract rather than an "agreement" and they should not reserve the right to unilaterally change the terms.

The second issue is actually how the user managers their own data. If your data is on your computer and it's important, you need to back it up. If your data is "in the cloud" and it's important, you still need to back it up. Keeping a copy on the provider's servers and on your hard drive is usually sufficient, though you have to be aware of the limitations (especially if it is a synchronization service rather than a backup service).

[carld]

Originally Posted by jtdolphins

I wasn't getting through to my relatives on why they needed more storage, then my Mom stepped in. She used the example of when Netflix took their favorite show off streaming and they couldn't watch it. The light came on..

I'm confused what one has to do with the other.

[jtdolphins]

Originally Posted by carld

I'm confused what one has to do with the other.

Trying to convince my family for local backup I made the following arguments.

1. Its up to us to back up our files. Amazon is a good secondary point.
2. Shouldn't think companies care about you. Similar to when Amazon deleted 1984, because they didn't have the rights to it.
3. You may not always have internet.

<<Love the pic Tubmonkey >>

At the time people were upset that netflix took off some shows they were watching and some connectivity issues with netflix at time. My mom pointed out that this was what I was talking about. She was focusing on access to people's files in terms they understood. I was talking about ownership to much, whereas they only cared about access. Point for both views is you need local storage.

[StoryEnthusiast]

Originally Posted by WillysJeepMan

The "cloud" is nothing new. Back-in-the-day(c) before personal computers, we had mainframe computers that sat in a separate room/building controlled by an elite team. They determined what you could do with (supposedly) your data. They also determined what applications you were allowed to run.

Here we are 30+ years later and we're going back to the future. User data is more and more being physically taken out of the hands of the user, and "ecosystems" are restricting what applications will be permitted to be used.

Agreed. But, back in the mainframe days it was mostly companies involved so not much personal data was stored. Now we are talking about storing personal data on the cloud. Personally, I have no problem running apps on the cloud with offline function. For my data, I always stick to the conventional approach of two backup sets. More work for sure, but peace of mind though.

[NickyWithNook]

The first time I bought an e-book from B&N, I got confused about what I was doing and accidentally deleted it and downloaded it again, therefore accidentally buying it twice. I was charged twice, emailed them about my mistake and that the two copies were bought within a minute of each other so obviously it was a mistake, and they credited my account for the second book.

Then, a long time later, I wanted to re-read a part of the book. B&N had deleted my copy of the book, saying I got a refund, so I couldn't re-download it. I emailed them about it and it was resolved, but there is not way to know whether this will happen again, and whether every instance will be easily resolved.

I guess it made me skittish. I appreciate them solving the problem, but I'm concerned that it was solved in the first place, and they apparently went back through my books at some point and found the credit and deleted that book. Why did the re-examine my books? I am uncomfortable with that. I shouldn't have to repeatedly explain that I paid for the book and we resolved it.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

Anybody who says you don't need local storage is an idiot. You can quote me on that.

If you're referring to local tablet storage, I don't need local storage and I'm NOT an idiot

However, I back up my books to a local computer at home. And that drive is also being backed up.

No need for additional storage on any of my tablets or readers. I'm not a huge music or movie fan, so whatever they provide is usually more than I need.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

There are at least two issues: one is the confidentiality of your data. You have to examine the contract to see who owns the data (are you transferring rights to them to any degree), to see if they maintain any data that you delete, and to see how much responsibility they will accept for security breaches. If your data is important, it should be handled by a contract rather than an "agreement" and they should not reserve the right to unilaterally change the terms.

The second issue is actually how the user managers their own data. If your data is on your computer and it's important, you need to back it up. If your data is "in the cloud" and it's important, you still need to back it up. Keeping a copy on the provider's servers and on your hard drive is usually sufficient, though you have to be aware of the limitations (especially if it is a synchronization service rather than a backup service).

Well put!