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Old 07-17-2012, 10:33 PM   #1
charlesatan
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Bullying and Book Reviews

There's a list of links at http://logophilos.net/blog/index.php...bully-for-you/

Basically clarifies actually bullying, book reviews aren't bullying, and another author meltdown.
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Old 07-18-2012, 05:12 AM   #2
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in error (somehow entered twice)

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Old 07-18-2012, 05:14 AM   #3
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Are they all troppo?????
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:40 AM   #4
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"– reviews aren’t bullying. They can certainly be abusive. But until the reviewer takes it to the author in person – still not bullying"

I have to disagree with that comment. There have been cases of Internet bullying in the news. Determining the intent of the reviewer is difficult, but it may very well be bullying in some cases. Abuse is bullying, end of story. The Internet in general has just led people to hide behind keyboards and lack a sense of common courtesy in many instances. There are many ways to write that a book did not live up to what you expeted or was poorly written or had plot holes or just didn't catch your fancy. Some are considerate, and some are not.

Too bad a shitty demeanor is what generally sells these days.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:46 AM   #5
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Another take on book reviews, bullying and "bullying the bulliers" over at GoodReads.

http://fozmeadows.wordpress.com/2012...ing-goodreads/

WARNING: There may be a tiny bit of language some could be offended by.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 07-18-2012 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:18 PM   #6
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Sounds like GoodReads could use some moderators. I know that I prefer to have moderators that keep comments from getting out of hand. I rarely read the comments at BGR or Engadget cause they usually turn into endless sniping, personal attacks, profanity, etc.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:04 AM   #7
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This is an excerpt from a yet to be tabled piece of legislation with a definition of bullying form Worksafe BC in Canada where workplace stress (including bullying) is now compensable:

Definition
“bullying and harassment”
(a) includes any inappropriate vexatious conduct or comment by a person towards a worker that the person knew or reasonably ought to have known would cause that worker to be humiliated, offended or intimidated, but
(b) excludes any reasonable action taken by an employer or supervisor relating to the management and direction of workers or the place of employment

It could be possible to say that if you write for a living and work for a company that pays its dues to WorksafeBC you could make a claim that 'vexatious comment by a person' in the form of a review or a few reviews could cause you stress enough to make a claim and take time off work.

Have fun, Jan

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Old 07-19-2012, 02:56 AM   #8
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Scott Lynch, author of the Gentleman Bastard series said this today on Twitter:
Quote:
It's no more "bullying" for someone to write a negative review of my work than it is for them to not share my taste in flavors of ice cream.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjantailor View Post
This is an excerpt from a yet to be tabled piece of legislation with a definition of bullying form Worksafe BC in Canada where workplace stress (including bullying) is now compensable:

Definition
“bullying and harassment”
(a) includes any inappropriate vexatious conduct or comment by a person towards a worker that the person knew or reasonably ought to have known would cause that worker to be humiliated, offended or intimidated, but
(b) excludes any reasonable action taken by an employer or supervisor relating to the management and direction of workers or the place of employment

It could be possible to say that if you write for a living and work for a company that pays its dues to WorksafeBC you could make a claim that 'vexatious comment by a person' in the form of a review or a few reviews could cause you stress enough to make a claim and take time off work.

Have fun, Jan
Jan I don't agree with your assessment.

If an author publishes, or otherwise distributes their work in the public domain, then they ought to expect 'criticism' about their work.

Critiquing a book, (or work of art or musical score etc) and an author's (or creator's) style, is customary practice, and has been since? (Maybe since books or musings were first given to others to consider, in whatever form was prevalent in that day - certainly there was always debate over the ancient philosophers teachings, by their students and others.)

Should an author, or their representative, consider that a criticism is not valid because it slurs in some way the character of the author, then legal recourse is available via the courts for offences such as slander, etc.

I note you say that the above are proposed legislative excerpts, and as a lay person reading those (and not seeing the rest of the document) I get the strong impression that as the clauses stand at the moment they are too broad in their interpretation and may not end up being the clauses that are accepted, agreed upon and assented to by the Parliament. (But hey, what do I know in this situation - diddly squat, eh!!)

Also - re an author claiming workers compensation ..... an author is generally self employed in status, even if they are on a 'contract' aren't they.

That means that they are not employees and would not fall within the ambit of the legislation.

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Old 07-19-2012, 11:10 AM   #10
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True, I agree most writer would not fall under this legislation. However, I know people who blog as part of their jobs. I could see comment if hurtful or disturbing in a personal way causing a stress claim in the right person.

As for review being bullying, sure it can. In the same way a review can be threatening. When do a review cross the line between criticism and bullying, that the $64,000 question. I would tend to think the line would be at insulting the writer not the work.

Stress in the workplace is already part of BC's Workers Compensation ACT which includes stress from bullying therefore, it is only a matter of time (deadline around Sept) before the definition of bullying is accepted.

And hey, look who we used as an example to help create this legislation, Australia's state Victoria:
In Victoria, section 21(1) of the Occupational Health and Safety Act2 states that “an employer must, so far as is reasonably practicable, provide and maintain for employees of the employer a working environment that is safe and without risks to health.” By definition, “health” includes psychological health.
It defines workplace bullying as “repeated unreasonable behavior directed towards a worker or group of workers that creates a risk to health and safety.”
Employers are required to consult with health and safety committees, representatives and workers to identify and assess bullying risks. Employers are advised to develop and implement a policy on bullying prevention, which sets out standards of behavior and makes a clear statement that inappropriate behaviour will not be tolerated.

http://www.worksafebc.com/regulation...Harassment.pdf

Have fun, Jan
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:17 AM   #11
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Jan I still consider that if someone is slandered or their character is besmirched in some way, and the person wants to pursue some sort of action against the perpetrator, then legal recourse already exists to do that.

Bullying has it's own definition/s according to the context, eg workplace or whatever, and is not the same as slander or besmirching etc.

On a separate note, I followed up Diapdealer's link (post no 5) and quite appreciated the following from the blog of Foz Meadows:

'Because bullying is not a synonym for argument, disagreement or pejorative reactions. Bullying is not a synonym for disliking someone, or for thinking their work is rubbish. Bullying is not even a synonym for saying so, publicly and repeatedly, in a place where that person can hear it – although that’s certainly unpleasant. Bullying is when someone with a greater position of power and/or possessed of greater strength repeatedly and purposefully attacks, harasses, belittles and/or otherwise undermines someone in a position of lesser power and/or possessed of lesser strength.'

http://fozmeadows.wordpress.com/2012...ing-goodreads/
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Old 07-20-2012, 01:10 AM   #12
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I like that last bit Lynx-Lynx.

And didn't think of slander which is more likely in the writer reviewer thing - work spilled over and I brought the headache of new regulation home.

I do like use of vexatious WorkSafeBC used in its legislation, it beats the other words it make me use like practicible (sp?).

Have fun, Jan
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