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Old 09-22-2012, 04:25 AM   #136
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PS - for me the above issues make me feel that I don't really "own" any of the amazon books that I've bought; I am being allowed to read them only on days when their software works & they can screw that up at any time via forced updates / general incompetence.

They feel "owned" only after I de-drm them, move them to a folder that amazon can't touch, & create a backup on a separate drive. Oh, and convert to epub so I can read them in other software.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:39 AM   #137
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You don't own them. This is clearly stated in the Kindle Licence Agreement, so your feelings are absolutely correct.
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:27 AM   #138
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You don't own them. This is clearly stated in the Kindle Licence Agreement, so your feelings are absolutely correct.
hmmm - maybe I should read that.
Does it obligate Amzon to keep the service going & not to arbitrarily discontinue K 4 PC i.e. does it guarantee me lifetime access via my PC ? I bet it doesn't.

slightly off-topic but how does that compare with epub format books bought from other stores (which use the ADE DRM ) e.g. Sony, Kobo , Nook bookstores.... do I "own" those can they also be remotely zapped by vendors?

I am not an ADE expert but I think that books open in ADE without going back on-line for permission, once they have been successfully installed.
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:16 AM   #139
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All e-book stores grant you a licence to use the content; they don't sell you the book. What you're buying is the licence.

This is really no different to a paper book. When you buy a paper book you're buying the ink and paper; copyright law grants you limited rights to read the contents of the book, but you don't "own" those contents in any way.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:14 AM   #140
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yes, but with reasonable care the "ink & paper" will never stop working & my access to it cannot be revoked.

when Kindle was first launched I "trusted " Amazon enough to discount the paranoia about bought books being removed form devices unexpectedly, but with recent K4PC bugs I am changing my view on that.

What's to stop Amazon from one day deciding that maintaining K4PC, K4Mac etc is not worth the hassle, and decreeing that book "owners" must either go buy a "proper" kindle handheld ( on which they can be advertised to ) or lose their book access.

After all, they have already either deliberately or incompetently made many earlier versions of K4PC stop working - permanently. I don't recall any apology for that, or any admission that they'd done anything wrong/ anything in breach of licence.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:58 AM   #141
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What's to stop Amazon from one day deciding that maintaining K4PC, K4Mac etc is not worth the hassle, and decreeing that book "owners" must either go buy a "proper" kindle handheld ( on which they can be advertised to ) or lose their book access.
Nothing. It's likely that one day even the Kindle devices themselves will stop working. 3G data networks aren't going to be available forever and one day Wi-Fi networks (using standards compatible with the current devices) will no longer exist.

Amazon could simply stop offering Kindle as a service. The same can be said about any service like this though.

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After all, they have already either deliberately or incompetently made many earlier versions of K4PC stop working - permanently. I don't recall any apology for that, or any admission that they'd done anything wrong/ anything in breach of licence.
It's generally accepted that if you want to use a vertically integrated service like this (where hardware, software and a service are heavily integrated) that you have to install the latest software update(s) to continue using the service.

The Kindle Terms and Conditions state this is a requirement.

Last edited by Daveoc64; 09-23-2012 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:07 AM   #142
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Amazon could simply stop offering Kindle as a service. The same can be said about any service like this though.
the computer games industry sells product that requires Internet activation or in some cases requires on-going on-line verification but all the major players have stated that before they ever turned off their servers, they would release patches so that their product would continue to work off-line.
like with books, technically you own the game licence , not the game, but there is some assurance that it will not become worthless overnight

the equivalent for Amazon would be them making all previously bought & downloaded kindle books continue to be readable on PCs. I don't know if they could or would do that.

They have a monolpoly on the .mobi, .azw formats and thus a monopoly on the reader software. ( I know calbre reader can step in but it's not a real mobi reader, it does an on-the-fly conversion to epub in order to display the text, & the book has to be de-drmed)
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:21 AM   #143
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the computer games industry sells product that requires Internet activation or in some cases requires on-going on-line verification but all the major players have stated that before they ever turned off their servers, they would release patches so that their product would continue to work off-line.
like with books, technically you own the game licence , not the game, but there is some assurance that it will not become worthless overnight

the equivalent for Amazon would be them making all previously bought & downloaded kindle books continue to be readable on PCs. I don't know if they could or would do that.
Amazon would not have the ability to do that. They have given publishers the assurance that their products will be protected with DRM, so in the event that they have to stop offering the Kindle service, that obligation would have to continue. It's also possible that Amazon might be forced to close down (e.g. due to bankruptcy - no matter how far fetched that sounds) and wouldn't actually be able to come up with a workaround or other fix.

Amazon is not like a games publisher, they don't own the content they're selling - they're more like a service like Steam or iTunes.

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They have a monolpoly on the .mobi, .azw formats and thus a monopoly on the reader software. ( I know calbre reader can step in but it's not a real mobi reader, it does an on-the-fly conversion to epub in order to display the text, & the book has to be de-drmed)
I'm not sure how this is relevant.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:26 AM   #144
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I've also thoroughly purged app data & registry in the past, using revo uninstaller
Revo's very good at finding left-over bits and pieces of programs, but unless you monitored the very first installation of K4PC using Revo (and consequently Revo-uninstalled each-and-every old version before Revo-installing the newer version ), there's simply no guarantee that it found/cleaned everything Kindle for PC-related from your registry. It's fairly easy to verify, though. After a Revo uninstall of your Kindle app. Bring up regedit and search your entire registry (Edit->Find/Find Next) for occurrences of the word "Amazon" (assuming you don't have any other Amazon software installed, of course [Audible/MP3 downloader/Previewer, etc...]). I can state with authority that the Kinde App absolutely pollutes the registry with entries.

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are any of your books .azw3 format?
my current theory, based on my free book "buying" is that it is only those in the new .azw3 format which go AWOL.
Many of my books purchased/downloaded to the Kindle App are in the KF8 format, if that's what you mean by .azw3 format (.azw3 is nothing more than a file extension, really). But to be perfectly honest ... I haven't purchased anything that has been delivered to my Kindle for PC app with an .azw3 extension. Every single ebook I buy shows up in the "My Kindle Content" folder with an .azw extension—even the ones that are strictly KF8 (although I did get an .azw4 and a .prc a long time ago). I do know that the .azw3 file extension is not associated with the Kindle for PC app by default (unlike the .mobi/.azw/.prc extensions). That tells me that it doesn't really expect to encounter them in its "normal," everyday routine.

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can you try "the Donor" - the current #1 in free fiction bestsellers list - that is the last one which failed for me. It is a .AZW3 file
It appears to only be free for Prime Lending (or I'm too late for the free offer). I'm not a Prime Member. But, are you saying it was delivered to your "My Kindle Content" folder with the .azw3 extension? In my experience (ignoring calibre and/or DRM removal plugins/tools), the .azw3 extension is generally "reserved" for KF8 ebooks delivered (by Amazon) to devices, not apps (at least not PC apps, anyway).

If/when you do happen to find a truly free ebook that gives you fits, I'd love to test it out, though. Feel free to PM me the details since I don't check this Kindle subforum as often as I used to.

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Old 09-23-2012, 10:28 AM   #145
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re "the donor" - trust me - it was free - but now its £1.99.

that's another annoyance - kindle books can go free to £1.99 to £3.99 to 0.99 seemingly at random.

you don't get to see the file type at time of purchase, but looking more closely: in kindle documents folder it shows as type .azw but in calibre I see .azw3 after import.

I just checked my calibre database - I have 7 titles that were free and were .azw in kindle docs, .azw3 in calbre, all of them are now £1.99 or more in UK kindle store today. I guess that as soon as a free book becomes TOO popular they start to charge for it.

the last 2 or 3 few books I've chosen have downloaded & synched OK, so I am waiting for the fault to re-occur on a future purchase, then I can explore some more

RE the end of the last but one post "not sure this is relevant" - my point was once you have a monopoly there's no need to waste money on bug fixes or enhancements. K4Pc has not updates since July as there's an awful lot of grief re bugs both here and in other forums
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Old 09-23-2012, 12:48 PM   #146
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you don't get to see the file type at time of purchase, but looking more closely: in kindle documents folder it shows as type .azw but in calibre I see .azw3 after import.
This is most definitely due to "certain plugins" that "fix" things whenever ebooks are imported. Calibre itself never alters the file extensions of ebooks upon import (not that any of this is particularly relevant to the "must restart K4PC in order to see new books" issue, but I think it's important to avoid any potential confusion).
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:54 AM   #147
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Revo's very good at finding left-over bits and pieces of programs, but unless you monitored the very first installation of K4PC using Revo (and consequently Revo-uninstalled each-and-every old version before Revo-installing the newer version ), there's simply no guarantee that it found/cleaned everything Kindle for PC-related from your registry. It's fairly easy to verify, though. After a Revo uninstall of your Kindle app. Bring up regedit and search your entire registry (Edit->Find/Find Next) for occurrences of the word "Amazon" (assuming you don't have any other Amazon software installed, of course [Audible/MP3 downloader/Previewer, etc...]). I can state with authority that the Kinde App absolutely pollutes the registry with entries.


....
I am still waiting for the program to bug out again so that I can do more testing, I "buy" a free book most days as a test but it's been well behaved since my last rant.

I have another "bug" observation though - when i watched K4PC lose a book the exact sequence was:
add 1 to number of books in library, show download progress bar, then lose book AND SUBTRACT 1 from books in library. there's a clue that I can't interpret in that add / subtract behaviour

PS you are right about the registry. in software I see sections for both Kindle user settings and Kindle for PC user settings. one of those must be redundant
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Old 09-29-2012, 03:57 PM   #148
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Hi there, I have been searching for an older version of Kindle for PC, such as 1.3 or 1.4 but all files I have downloades from File Hippo just doesnt work. Some install, some dont, those who install the program wont open in windows 7.

Anyone can tell where I can download a funtional older version?
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Old 09-29-2012, 03:59 PM   #149
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Hi there, I have been searching for an older version of Kindle for PC, such as 1.3 or 1.4 but all files I have downloades from File Hippo just doesnt work. Some install, some dont, those who install the program wont open in windows 7.

Anyone can tell where I can download a funtional older version?
Not possible. All older versions expired on July 21st of this year. You must use the newer versions after 1.9.3.
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:07 PM   #150
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Hi there, I have been searching for an older version of Kindle for PC, such as 1.3 or 1.4 but all files I have downloades from File Hippo just doesnt work. Some install, some dont, those who install the program wont open in windows 7.

Anyone can tell where I can download a funtional older version?
see my post 135 above - we can't show the links on this board but they are easy to find. when I make that post it took me less than 5 mins to find the link

there are many sites that archive & make available older versions of software

google something like kindle for pc old versions
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