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Old 09-05-2012, 03:48 PM   #196
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:56 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Just out of interest, how many threads do you think would have been created here about this story, if it had been about Apple rather than Samsung?
I certainly read a fair few threads on that story, though maybe not here. Since you posted that, though, we should note the latest on the story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19475556

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Old 09-05-2012, 04:00 PM   #198
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we should note the latest on the story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19475556

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Samsung is starting what Apple started in 2007 according to the article.
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Old 09-05-2012, 04:04 PM   #199
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Samsung is starting what Apple started in 2007 according to the article.
Which is good.

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Old 09-05-2012, 05:32 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Just out of interest, how many threads do you think would have been created here about this story, if it had been about Apple rather than Samsung?
Why aren't you starting a thread to discuss it?

And this is as much about Apple as the story about Foxconn's working condition was, since Samsung makes parts for Apple.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:34 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Just out of interest, how many threads do you think would have been created here about this story, if it had been about Apple rather than Samsung?
I don't know, how many?

P.S. Like Graham I read several articles about it from various sources.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:36 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Sil_liS View Post
this is as much about Apple
BBC article says

Quote:
China Labor Watch published its report last month saying several of its members had worked undercover for two months at HEG's plant, used to make Samsung-branded mobile phones, stereo equipment and MP3 players.
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:11 PM   #203
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Why aren't you starting a thread to discuss it?
Because I don't think it is worth starting a thread to discuss it here, same as I didn't think the equivalent stories about Apple were worth starting threads to discuss. Somehow they received a lot more attention though.

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Old 09-05-2012, 08:06 PM   #204
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Because I don't think it is worth starting a thread to discuss it here, same as I didn't think the equivalent stories about Apple were worth starting threads to discuss. Somehow they received a lot more attention though.
Then why bring it up?
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:28 AM   #205
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Apple and its supplier were under more scrutiny because just a few months before multiple people had committed suicide at the Foxconn plant where apple products are manufactured or assembled.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:56 AM   #206
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Apple and its supplier were under more scrutiny because just a few months before multiple people had committed suicide at the Foxconn plant where apple products are manufactured or assembled.
That story pretty much has been debunked. More of a case of overzealous journalism. On average, way fewer Foxconn employees committed suicide than even Air France employees. The average at Foxconn was lower than for any industrialized country in the world. (remember Foxconn has about 1 million employees, while 13 deaths are 13 too many, we have to put that number in perspective). And working conditions were actually quite good.

And, as a result of the exorbitant wage hikes that followed this overblown story the great exodus of foreign companies from China has set in. Which is one of the reasons China's economy isn't looking so good.

Just wanted to mention that Foxconn is by no means an exclusive Apple supplier, they work for pretty much everybody.

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Old 09-06-2012, 06:52 AM   #207
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Apple and its supplier were under more scrutiny because just a few months before multiple people had committed suicide at the Foxconn plant where apple products are manufactured or assembled.
Does that mean Apple products are worth dying for?
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:53 AM   #208
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Apple and its supplier were under more scrutiny because just a few months before multiple people had committed suicide at the Foxconn plant where apple products are manufactured or assembled.
My point was that Samsung is an Apple supplier as well.

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That story pretty much has been debunked. More of a case of overzealous journalism. On average, way fewer Foxconn employees committed suicide than even Air France employees. The average at Foxconn was lower than for any industrialized country in the world. (remember Foxconn has about 1 million employees, while 13 deaths are 13 too many, we have to put that number in perspective). And working conditions were actually quite good.
Have you read the report for this one?

Quote:
Among the child workers listed above, we interviewed Wu Xiaofang (alias) in particular. She is 14 years old. (Given that she does not have an official ID, we confirmed her age with her.) She told us about her problems at HEG recently. During March and April 2012, she accidentally fell on the stairs on her way from the dormitory to the factory floor, unable to work afterwards. However, the company not only refused to take her to the hospital for treatment but also rejected her request for sick leave. It also deducted 6 days from her wages on the pretext of her sick leave. Similar things happened in late May. At that time, Wu was late because of the illness and asked for leave, but the manager did not approve. She was too sick to work and went back to rest in the dormitory, while the company deducted 3 days from her wages for absenteeism. What was worse, Wu was fired for no reason in late June and expelled in July. She cried while telling us that the management of the company expelled her because there would be an audit of the factory and that the manager said that once the underage workers who falsified their ages to be employed were discovered by auditors, the company would receive a fine for more than 100,000 RMB ($15,873) and the hometowns of the child laborers would be fined for more than 20,000 RMB ($3,174.6). Wu said that she did not know where she could go without a legal identity.
This doesn't make any sense. If they are concerned by child labor how exactly do they say that a child of 14 who falsified her age to get employment was fired for no reason? And how exactly did she fell down the stairs for two months? How did they deduct days for sick leave if she didn't get sick leave?
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:29 PM   #209
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My point was that Samsung is an Apple supplier as well.


Have you read the report for this one?


This doesn't make any sense. If they are concerned by child labor how exactly do they say that a child of 14 who falsified her age to get employment was fired for no reason? And how exactly did she fell down the stairs for two months? How did they deduct days for sick leave if she didn't get sick leave?
If we apply our grey cells and a little bit of knowledge of the situation on the ground to this case we can see this "report" has more holes than Swiss cheese. The only possible way a 14-year-old could sneak into a company like Foxconn to work is if she looks a lot older and has a really authentic looking fake ID. (in that case how can you blame Foxconn?) There is not a chance in hell that she would get to work there with no ID. They have no incentive to hire children. They would NEVER hire someone without an ID. What if that person stole something, how do you find them? What if they commit some other crime harming a third person in the factory? The starting wage is what it is (if you know anything about the logistics of a big factory (and this one has 400,000 people!) you would understand that it is impossible to have special rules for special cases or the whole thing becomes totally unmanageable. A 14-year-old can work less hard than an 18-year-old and has acquired fewer skills. Companies like Foxconn have inspectors running around all the time (from the local authorities, from their customers, from third parties). That she is, in fact only 14 has not been ascertained. A good reporter could easily do the research and locate the records in the girl's home town. This reporter was a real sloppy one.

As for the mistreatment, that sounds equally unlikely. My guess is that doctors have examined her and found her claim to be fake. (Believe it or not, it happens quite often that employees fake an illness to get a few days off. Companies have to check the claims, that is only fair). If she doesn't agree with that she would just have to walk out of the factory gates and grab one of the few dozen lawyers that congregate there at all times, those lawyers are eager to sue the company and make a quick buck if there is any validity to such a claim at all. In the last 2-3 years the tide has really turned and most cases are decided in favor of the workers by the labor authorities.

I also want to mention that a number of these reporters lately have later admitted to writing a great part of their stories from hearsay, without talking directly to many of the "victims".

But I know, it was on the internet, so it must be true!

Last edited by HansTWN; 09-07-2012 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:10 AM   #210
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The report that I linked to wasn't about Foxconn, it is the one that accuses Samsung of child labor. It's the original report by China Labor Watch, that is the source for the articles.

I linked to it because you said that the story about Foxconn was debunked, and I was pointing out the fact that the current story has some holes in it as well.
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