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Old 06-28-2012, 10:04 AM   #46
VydorScope
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To be clear Steven,

First I respect you and have no intention to insult or degrade you in anyway.

I WRITE because I love too... I PUBLISH and MARKET because I would like some money. If that was not the case I would put them all on Smash for free. I do not.

Perhaps you do not mean to but you come across as you write because you want money. There is NOTHING wrong with that, I just do not see that as a realistic expectation to make a living at doing this. I would love to be wrong on this point BTW.


And to be clear the proper quote is:

Quote:
1 Timothy 6:10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil...
Money itself is amoral. Its the desires of men that make it bad. That might be the most misquoted bible verse in all of history.
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:39 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by mr ploppy View Post
I don't think anyone said you should stop writing, just that you should have more realistic expectations of how much money you are going to make from it.
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Sounds like you are primarily profit motivated. I am not sure this is a good business for you in that case.
I don't see anything unrealistic about wanting to supplement my income with writing... one of the few things that I can do well. I have a good day job, too--as does my wife--so, no, I don't need to supplement my income just to pay the bills. But there's no law that says I can't try.

So far, the best actual advice I've heard from anyone was to start writing something popular (though it saddens my heart to think SF isn't popular enough in itself). No, I'm not going to start writing sparkly vampires; but there may be other popular tropes I can handle.

Of course, I suppose I could try to supplement my income by doing something I do badly instead... (Shatnerian pause) but why?

I'd much rather try to figure out how to get something I like to do, and do well, pay a dividend. But listening to a lot of "not gonna happen" comments doesn't help.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:02 PM   #48
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First, do not give up based on some dorks posting on a forum

It might happen, but if you were in Vegas placing bets you would likely never be on an indy writer to make it big. It DOES happen, and I hope it does happen for you (and me to while we are at it!)

I agree it would be cool to quite my day jobs and only be an author full time. As I have stated, I do have money motive too, I just do not expect to get rich. I do get a check (well 2 actually, 1 for UK, 1 for USA) from Amazon every month. You can make SOME money doing it. That seems fairly easy (since I am currently doing that).

I guess my point is that it is about setting realistic expectations. Want to make couple-few hundred extra a month? Sure! Go for it. That should be doable for most decent writers. Want to make $100k/year? Eh... I would not place my bets on that. It DOES happen, so nothing wrong with trying.

As for advice, I have posted my plan several times, and each time have been told it does not work, it sucks, its stupid, whatever. (I have to look for old posts but I am pretty sure you were among those who said my plan was bad.) So I have stopped mentioning it but I am continuing to follow it.
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:03 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
[...]So far, the best actual advice I've heard from anyone was to start writing something popular (though it saddens my heart to think SF isn't popular enough in itself).[...]
I've seen this too - particularly in relation to traditional publishing - generally stated as: if you want to get published, write what publishers want to publish. It is effectively the same thing. I think this is probably sound advice, if you seriously expect to earn significant income from writing.

No one can tell you definitely that it won't happen for you, it might. And yes, you really should try - as you have been - because it (almost) certainly won't happen unless you do try. My previous posts were about expectations rather than hopes. I think most writers hope to find an appreciated audience, I know I do. And money provides a concrete measure of a work's acceptance that simple downloads and even reviews do not. So don't give up, and certainly don't give up hope ... but maybe adjust your expectations a little.
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:13 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
I don't see anything unrealistic about wanting to supplement my income with writing... one of the few things that I can do well. I have a good day job, too--as does my wife--so, no, I don't need to supplement my income just to pay the bills. But there's no law that says I can't try.

So far, the best actual advice I've heard from anyone was to start writing something popular (though it saddens my heart to think SF isn't popular enough in itself). No, I'm not going to start writing sparkly vampires; but there may be other popular tropes I can handle.

Of course, I suppose I could try to supplement my income by doing something I do badly instead... (Shatnerian pause) but why?

I'd much rather try to figure out how to get something I like to do, and do well, pay a dividend. But listening to a lot of "not gonna happen" comments doesn't help.
Lots of people would like to supplement their income by getting paid to play football or basketball, too.

Lots more people will tell them they aren't good enough and to give up on that and be realistic.

What makes one type of entertainer more special snowflake than another?
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:21 AM   #51
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First, do not give up based on some dorks posting on a forum
...
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:38 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Tyson View Post
Lots of people would like to supplement their income by getting paid to play football or basketball, too.

Lots more people will tell them they aren't good enough and to give up on that and be realistic.

What makes one type of entertainer more special snowflake than another?
"Snowflake"?

I reiterate: I'm seeking to supplement my existing income; not to make a few dozen million dollars in a few years and retiring to buy a car dealership. The analogy isn't even close.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:41 AM   #53
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"Snowflake"?
Yeah, you know: Beautiful, special and unique...and a trillion others just the same.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:55 AM   #54
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Yeah, you know: Beautiful, special and unique...and a trillion others just the same.
Aren't snowflakes renowned for being unique?
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:07 AM   #55
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Aren't snowflakes renowned for being unique?
Yes. But each snowflake's mother tells it that it's MORE unique.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:32 AM   #56
QuantumIguana
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Lots of people would like to supplement their income by getting paid to play football or basketball, too.

Lots more people will tell them they aren't good enough and to give up on that and be realistic.

What makes one type of entertainer more special snowflake than another?
No one plays major league sports to "supplement" their income, professional athletes get paid millions, and if they invest their money well would never have to work a day in their lives, even if their career is short. A major league career might be a longshot, but for every player who makes it to the major leagues, there are hundreds more who had a college scholarship. It's not unreasonable for an athlete to get a college scholarship, and free college is a nice supplement.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:06 AM   #57
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Let's get back to the original post for a moment, because I'm actually not hearing many responses that address what I consider to be a major question (and because my original comment really wasn't just about getting paid):

Suppose you spent most of a year--maybe more than a year--creating a special piece of art, or a manuscript, etc, that you were convinced the world needed to see, and would be better off having.

Now, suppose that, once it was finished, you couldn't get anyone to look at it. No one at all. Therefore no appreciation, no accolades, no "job well done, sir." And it looked like no one was ever going to see it.

How would that knowledge impact you? Would you consider your time and effort wasted? If you knew that a future project would achieve the same results (ie, no one would ever see it), would you be as inclined to spend that time and effort to create it? Do you really create only for you, or do you in fact crave a pat on the back, even if it's from only one person, to make your effort worthwhile?
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:41 AM   #58
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How many people continue to paint despite their paintings never being displayed anywhere but on their own walls? Art supply stores would dry up if it wasn't for such people.
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:00 PM   #59
Steven Lyle Jordan
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How many people continue to paint despite their paintings never being displayed anywhere but on their own walls? Art supply stores would dry up if it wasn't for such people.
Presumably visitors to their homes will see them. Question stands.
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:18 PM   #60
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Now, suppose that, once it was finished, you couldn't get anyone to look at it. No one at all. Therefore no appreciation, no accolades, no "job well done, sir." And it looked like no one was ever going to see it.
Are you saying nobody has ever downloaded one of your stories, not even the free ones?

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How would that knowledge impact you? Would you consider your time and effort wasted? If you knew that a future project would achieve the same results (ie, no one would ever see it), would you be as inclined to spend that time and effort to create it? Do you really create only for you, or do you in fact crave a pat on the back, even if it's from only one person, to make your effort worthwhile?
Pats on the back are nice, money is even nicer. The pats encourage me to continue, the money encourages Mrs Ploppy to free up a bit more of my time. But I spent over a year writing without either of them, and only about 5 blog visitors a month. That didn't really change until I started putting them on pirate sites.

I think writing for your own amusement (as a hobby) is really the only way to look at it. If you don't get any entertainment value from it, there's really no point. Vast amounts of money wouldn't change that either.
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