Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-30-2011, 04:18 AM   #1
owly
Guru
owly ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.owly ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.owly ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.owly ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.owly ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.owly ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.owly ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.owly ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.owly ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.owly ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.owly ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
owly's Avatar
 
Posts: 674
Karma: 3808944
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sweden
Device: Kobo Aura HD, Paperwhite 2, Kobo Aura H2O
Soccer player causes e-book loan explosion

Something very interesting is happening in e-book Sweden. One book "Jag är Zlatan", a new biography about Swedens most famous soccer player, has tipped the scales of Library e-book lending. When it comes to lending e-books the system in Sweden is that the library pays 20 Kr. ($3) per downloaded book via the company Elib. Now this was fine when loans counted in the hundreds but libraries have become increasingly worried that the sword of increased e-book lending would fall and now that sword is hanging by a thread. The example that is being used is that the paper version was loaned about 350 times from the Stockholm Public Library but the e-version about 5 times that! The short term measures around the country are lending restrictions and even full-stops on e-book lending. As the old system clearly is flawed the Swedish library community is trying to find a new model. Go the Overdrive-way, with e-books bought and lended like paper books or is there another model yet to be realized? Hopefully this year will tell..
owly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 09:59 AM   #2
CyGuy
Avid Reader
CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
CyGuy's Avatar
 
Posts: 769
Karma: 7777778
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: PocketBook 902, Galaxy Tab 2 7.0, ASUS TF700, and Cybook Gen III
Quote:
Originally Posted by owly View Post
Something very interesting is happening in e-book Sweden. One book "Jag är Zlatan", a new biography about Swedens most famous soccer player, has tipped the scales of Library e-book lending. When it comes to lending e-books the system in Sweden is that the library pays 20 Kr. ($3) per downloaded book via the company Elib. Now this was fine when loans counted in the hundreds but libraries have become increasingly worried that the sword of increased e-book lending would fall and now that sword is hanging by a thread. The example that is being used is that the paper version was loaned about 350 times from the Stockholm Public Library but the e-version about 5 times that! The short term measures around the country are lending restrictions and even full-stops on e-book lending. As the old system clearly is flawed the Swedish library community is trying to find a new model. Go the Overdrive-way, with e-books bought and lended like paper books or is there another model yet to be realized? Hopefully this year will tell..
I find myself really confused by this. Why would they pay anyone $3 to loan out a book they already purchased? That does not make sense. Are they paying this $3 fee when they loan out the paper book? If this is a public library does this mean the tax payers are footing the bill for this $3 charge? Seriously confused here, what am I missing?

Last edited by CyGuy; 12-30-2011 at 11:33 AM.
CyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 12:57 PM   #3
Giggleton
Suspended
Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,687
Karma: 4368191
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oregon
Device: Kindle3
Apparently in some countries, every time a book is loaned out from the library a fee is sent to the "creator" of the book.
Giggleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 12:58 PM   #4
Barcey
Wizard
Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Barcey's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,363
Karma: 6306378
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canada
Device: Kobo Glo / PB360+ / PB902 / iPad3
I don't see a problem with lending limits for e-books based on the libraries budget. Paper books have lending limits based on how many physical copies you buy. The "Overdrive way" just mimics how the paper books have historically been loaned.

It should be relatively easy to set a maximum loans per month parameter on an ebook based on the libraries budget and people would just have to wait like they do for paper books. I don't know why it would be necessary to adopt the Overdrive system.
Barcey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 01:46 PM   #5
CyGuy
Avid Reader
CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
CyGuy's Avatar
 
Posts: 769
Karma: 7777778
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: PocketBook 902, Galaxy Tab 2 7.0, ASUS TF700, and Cybook Gen III
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggleton View Post
Apparently in some countries, every time a book is loaned out from the library a fee is sent to the "creator" of the book.
Who the heck fell for that? Once the book is purchased there are no fees associated with loaning out the book. I can't imagine why anyone would pay a fee for something they already own.
CyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 01:46 PM   #6
rogue_librarian
Guru
rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
rogue_librarian's Avatar
 
Posts: 973
Karma: 4269175
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Europe
Device: Pocketbook Basic 613
Yes, there are royalties for the author of a book when a library loans out his books, too, in many countries, for both paper and ebooks. This in itself is not a problem (we're talking about cents here, really), but $3 is insane.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CyGuy View Post
Once the book is purchased there are no fees associated with loaning out the book. I can't imagine why anyone would pay a fee for something they already own.
Because it's the law. It also applies to pbooks that you buy outright.
rogue_librarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 01:59 PM   #7
CyGuy
Avid Reader
CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
CyGuy's Avatar
 
Posts: 769
Karma: 7777778
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: PocketBook 902, Galaxy Tab 2 7.0, ASUS TF700, and Cybook Gen III
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue_librarian View Post
Because it's the law. It also applies to pbooks that you buy outright.
You are claiming that if I purchase a pbook, read it myself, and then loan it to a friend I owe a "fee" of some kind to someone? I would like to think that no one has ever passed such a ridiculous law in any country, and I certainly hope that no one would abide by such a law. I must have misunderstood what you meant because that just doesn't make sense.
CyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 02:06 PM   #8
rogue_librarian
Guru
rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
rogue_librarian's Avatar
 
Posts: 973
Karma: 4269175
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Europe
Device: Pocketbook Basic 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyGuy View Post
You are claiming that if I purchase a pbook, read it myself, and then loan it to a friend I owe a "fee" of some kind to someone?
Duh, no. It applies to public libraries only. It's called "Public Lending Right", and Wikipedia has more (as always). The going rate in the UK was 6p (less than a dime) per loan last time I checked.

Last edited by rogue_librarian; 12-30-2011 at 02:11 PM.
rogue_librarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 02:31 PM   #9
CyGuy
Avid Reader
CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
CyGuy's Avatar
 
Posts: 769
Karma: 7777778
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: PocketBook 902, Galaxy Tab 2 7.0, ASUS TF700, and Cybook Gen III
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue_librarian View Post
Duh, no. It applies to public libraries only. It's called "Public Lending Right", and Wikipedia has more (as always). The going rate in the UK was 6p (less than a dime) per loan last time I checked.
I just read the article and I find this very disturbing. The library should simply purchase the book for full price and then make it available to loan without paying any recurring fee. I can't believe that the tax payers are expected to fund this recurring fee, for a product they already funded to purchase! Wow, just wow. I sure hope they don't get away with this in the US.
CyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 02:39 PM   #10
rogue_librarian
Guru
rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
rogue_librarian's Avatar
 
Posts: 973
Karma: 4269175
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Europe
Device: Pocketbook Basic 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyGuy View Post
I sure hope they don't get away with this in the US.
It sure beats "wearing out" the ebook after 26 lending cycles in my book...
rogue_librarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 02:47 PM   #11
CyGuy
Avid Reader
CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CyGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
CyGuy's Avatar
 
Posts: 769
Karma: 7777778
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: PocketBook 902, Galaxy Tab 2 7.0, ASUS TF700, and Cybook Gen III
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue_librarian View Post
If it wasn't so disturbing I would find that humorous. The mistake they made is that they appear to have purchased a "license" instead of a "book". That should be avoided at all costs, purchase the book not a license and all of that nonsense disappears. As much as I hate to see new laws passed this is a case where publishers who attempt acts like this should be prevented by law, even if it means new laws have to be passed.
CyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 03:05 PM   #12
Giggleton
Suspended
Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,687
Karma: 4368191
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oregon
Device: Kindle3
This is not disturbing, this is indeed the future. All books everywhere, no need for a centralized anything. A distributed cloud, organized by an international consortium, accessed through taxes? Containing all uploads...
Giggleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 03:13 PM   #13
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,010
Karma: 42472847
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Kobo H2O, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyGuy View Post
I just read the article and I find this very disturbing. The library should simply purchase the book for full price and then make it available to loan without paying any recurring fee. I can't believe that the tax payers are expected to fund this recurring fee, for a product they already funded to purchase! Wow, just wow. I sure hope they don't get away with this in the US.
The PLR is a form of compensation for authors for the fact that people can borrow their books from the library, rather than having to buy a copy themselves. It was introduced, in the UK, when changes to copyright law removed an author's right to refuse to have their book in the library system.

It's not a vast sum of money; an author receives about 6p (about US 10c) per loan, with a maximum payment to any one author of about £3000 in any given year (about $5000).

PLR payments go directly to the author; it's not paid to the publisher of the book.

I believe that most people would regard the PLR as a good thing. It exists in most western nations.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 03:29 PM   #14
BWinmill
Wizard
BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,757
Karma: 14842230
Join Date: Sep 2011
Device: Sony PRS-T1
I was looking up the situation in Canada and it's, erm, interesting. It appears to be entirely opt-in (i.e. the author can choose to lend their books royalty free) and it is based on a sliding scale ("new titles" earn more, presumably because they want to encourage the creation of new works). I wonder how such ideas would carry over if implemented in copyright law since PLR are not legislated in Canada.
BWinmill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2011, 03:51 PM   #15
SeaKing
Frequent Flier
SeaKing ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaKing ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaKing ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaKing ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaKing ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaKing ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaKing ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaKing ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaKing ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaKing ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaKing ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
SeaKing's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,282
Karma: 2058837333
Join Date: Oct 2011
Device: KB kindle aboard, Galx Tab 7.0 Plus, trying out Droid 1 as mini-tab
In a lot Socialistic countries especially in the Nordic countries where they have long fed off the fatted calf of the North Sea Oil Reserves (which are now disappearing) they had a lot of these kind of laws to protect (i.e. fatten "artists"). Artists being authors, painters, etc.

The government would buy painters works at some "established - by the art community - price" and actually store these works in air conditioned warehouses. After a while these storage facilities got quite large and numerous.

There was an attempt in this country with the rise of the online used book trade (i.e. Amazon, B&N) to pay authors a fee (or a share) of the price of a used book when it was sold. This was knocked down pretty quickly. One example for not doing it, was the idea of paying Ford each time an old Ford was traded. In this country that is a ridiculous idea, but not so in the EU which is strongly influenced by the Nordic countries.

In America unfortunately, communities are shutting libraries, or curtailing their services and so no one will be willing to pay anyone for lending a book. Still in fairlness I see a limit of some kind as to how many times an eBook can be lent in a given period of time. This limit would be established by looking at the frequency of lending for Pbooks. Say a popular Pbook might be lent 30 times in a year on average (and usually in the first year and only then), then I would think that would be the guide for eBooks. After 30 times, the ebook would be locked down until the next year, and then the counter restarted.

Personally I own 5 old (sometimes very old) (I call them my babies) clunkers. A small helicopter, a small plane, a small fishing trawler, a medium sized houseboat, and a small travel trailer. I don't know how many times these items have been bought and sold.
One item I bought brand new. A truck.

Why the heck does he have so much rolling, floating, and flying stock you might ask.
I make money with the helicopter and plane. The houseboat I live in on a lake and river, and the trawler, I am converting to live in on the sea. The trailer I live in when I know I am going to be traveling to a job for a period of time and it is cheaper than renting. My truck also has a camper cover that I can put on it for that same reason.

The idea of paying the manufacturers each time these old items have been sold and bought is plain stupid.
SeaKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Free book (Kindle) Soccer Dad greencat Deals, Freebies, and Resources (No Self-Promotion) 1 06-15-2011 03:32 AM
e-book kindle/nook loans, loan sites, and value Joykins General Discussions 0 03-31-2011 10:22 AM
Book has been returned; Loan not on record?? What?? fletaash Barnes & Noble NOOK 6 03-09-2011 07:15 PM
Classic It's official -- You can only loan a book out once. Daithi Barnes & Noble NOOK 74 11-03-2009 02:12 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:12 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.