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Old 04-23-2012, 04:38 AM   #1
Justin Nemo
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Is Grammar Really That Important Any More?

In this Tuned in, Taped in, Turned on world with its super infra-red highways, WiFi and SMS, does grammar and punctuation really have a place?

For someone who was schooled in a system where punctuation, verb conjugation, proper use of prepositions and pronouns was drummed into me via the edge of a steel ruler across my knuckles, I still sometimes forget the rules, as anyone who has read my posts will attest to. So was it all worth it?

In this new mobile world where R U OK, C U 2nite, LMAO and ROLF actually mean something, does it really matter anymore if what you write is grammatically correct?

Maybe that is the answer to dwindling book sales (E or P). Perhaps if we all adopted “Newspeak” it would encourage the younger generations to read more.
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:30 AM   #2
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I think that good grammar always has a place. I mean would you want your Dr. to write out a prescription that was open to interpretation? Or would you want your lawyer (If involved in a court case) to write just anything down in his brief for the judge? There are definite reasons to have good grammar. Also if it's a choice between reading a book by an author who uses good grammar or one who uses IM speak I'll choose the author who uses good grammar every time. The other author may have a superior story to the traditional grammar using author but when I read books I read for entertainment (unless I'm reading from a reference book) and I don't want to have to struggle to understand the meaning of IM speak when I'm doing it. I've read some fan fictions that used IM speak in the past and it just doesn't read well. And before you can break the rules of good grammar you have to know them. One way we pick them up is by reading them in actual books. You can't do that if the books are written in some sort of mess that you have to learn in addition to the basic rules. It's hard enough reading some really old books with traditional grammar. Can you see trying to read Shakespeare or the Bible in IM speak? It just wouldn't work.
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:04 AM   #3
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I actually think it's becoming more important, or at least, more recognised. People are beginning to realise the value of decent editing now that they have access to so many badly edited (or unedited!_ ebooks. I've been in publishing for a good many years, most in some sort of editing capacity, and it's been very interesting over the past few years to see how many authors have written articles or blogs emphasising the importance of paying for proper editing and proofreading if self-publishing. This is reflected in the increasing number of reviews on Amazon and similar sites that mark down a book if it contains errors, not only in grammar/spelling, but in plot development (silly things such as the protagonist's eyes being green in one chapter to blue in another, or a place being at the wrong end of a country).
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:05 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by crich70 View Post
I think that good grammar always has a place. I mean would you want your Dr. to write out a prescription that was open to interpretation? Or would you want your lawyer (If involved in a court case) to write just anything down in his brief for the judge? There are definite reasons to have good grammar. Also if it's a choice between reading a book by an author who uses good grammar or one who uses IM speak I'll choose the author who uses good grammar every time. The other author may have a superior story to the traditional grammar using author but when I read books I read for entertainment (unless I'm reading from a reference book) and I don't want to have to struggle to understand the meaning of IM speak when I'm doing it. I've read some fan fictions that used IM speak in the past and it just doesn't read well. And before you can break the rules of good grammar you have to know them. One way we pick them up is by reading them in actual books. You can't do that if the books are written in some sort of mess that you have to learn in addition to the basic rules. It's hard enough reading some really old books with traditional grammar. Can you see trying to read Shakespeare or the Bible in IM speak? It just wouldn't work.
Everything my doctor writes is open to interpretation! I am assuming you are a person of “a certain age”. I was thinking more to the future of fiction writing, rather than the unintelligible lies of a lawyer.
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:08 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by LuvReadin View Post
I actually think it's becoming more important, or at least, more recognised. People are beginning to realise the value of decent editing now that they have access to so many badly edited (or unedited!_ ebooks. I've been in publishing for a good many years, most in some sort of editing capacity, and it's been very interesting over the past few years to see how many authors have written articles or blogs emphasising the importance of paying for proper editing and proofreading if self-publishing. This is reflected in the increasing number of reviews on Amazon and similar sites that mark down a book if it contains errors, not only in grammar/spelling, but in plot development (silly things such as the protagonist's eyes being green in one chapter to blue in another, or a place being at the wrong end of a country).
Thank you for that, it was very interesting, although most of the people I have seen crying out for proper editing and proofing, have been editors and proof readers.
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:12 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by LuvReadin View Post
I actually think it's becoming more important, or at least, more recognised. People are beginning to realise the value of decent editing now that they have access to so many badly edited (or unedited!_ ebooks. I've been in publishing for a good many years, most in some sort of editing capacity, and it's been very interesting over the past few years to see how many authors have written articles or blogs emphasising the importance of paying for proper editing and proofreading if self-publishing. This is reflected in the increasing number of reviews on Amazon and similar sites that mark down a book if it contains errors, not only in grammar/spelling, but in plot development (silly things such as the protagonist's eyes being green in one chapter to blue in another, or a place being at the wrong end of a country).
Great post.

IM speak drives me nuts, I can't make heads or tails of it most of the time. Grammatical errors bother the heck out of me. When I read an article or blog entry with grammatical errors they somewhat ruin the experience, as a grammatical error or spelling mistake interrupts the flow of my reading. I am pursuing a doctorate in linguistics, so I am probably more sensitive to such matters that most. (That isn't to say that I don't make mistakes myself, though; I'm sure that I make many. )

Last edited by Latinandgreek; 04-23-2012 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:27 AM   #7
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Gramer are not good 'cause its too complication. Why comuinicate? I ass you. True, communications is importants to Indy writers - should be no doubts about its, but I arse you agains, why should communications be interests to anyones? Uh?

No,i ts clear as pimples on neck (see), that communicats should be most importantce for ever y one, and not jest Indy rigthers.


Dno

By new book: Gramer is knot jest fer Idjits!
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:39 AM   #8
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I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear that I think that good grammar, spelling and punctuation are essential. Language is the "toolkit" of a writer, and you can't be a good craftsman unless you know how to use your tools correctly. Sure, you're going to want to "break the rules" in passages of dialogue (nobody "speaks" grammatically correct English), but it's important to know what those rules are before you start breaking them.

Another aspect is that poor grammar and spelling will simply put people off your book. I know that if I pick up a book and see, for example, "it's" where it should be "its", or "your" instead of "you're", it makes me think that if the writer hasn't bothered to get these things right, how much care has he or she taken with the actual story?

So yes, "essential" is my vote.
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Nemo View Post
Thank you for that, it was very interesting, although most of the people I have seen crying out for proper editing and proofing, have been editors and proof readers.
This is true - we tend to do a lot of ! But the authors are getting in on the act:
http://daringnovelist.blogspot.co.uk...d-editors.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/book...eed-publishers (AH reckons editing is one of the most important services a publisher provides)
http://scbwi.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/...ll-speaks.html

as are the academics:
http://nola.copydesk.org/wp-media/editupdate2012.pdf

But there are of course, always some authors who think they know everything : http://mortimerjackson.hubpages.com/...Hire-An-Editor

Perhaps they should take note of what can happen if editing is ignored? (need to scroll down quite a bit): http://londonersdiary.standard.co.uk...s-pile-up.html
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:18 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Dr. Drib View Post
Gramer are not good 'cause its too complication. Why comuinicate? I ass you. True, communications is importants to Indy writers - should be no doubts about its, but I arse you agains, why should communications be interests to anyones? Uh?

No,i ts clear as pimples on neck (see), that communicats should be most importantce for ever y one, and not jest Indy rigthers.


Dno

By new book: Gramer is knot jest fer Idjits!
Hey Doc, I didn't know you spoke Dutch
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:21 AM   #11
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I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear that I think that good grammar, spelling and punctuation are essential. Language is the "toolkit" of a writer, and you can't be a good craftsman unless you know how to use your tools correctly. Sure, you're going to want to "break the rules" in passages of dialogue (nobody "speaks" grammatically correct English), but it's important to know what those rules are before you start breaking them.

Another aspect is that poor grammar and spelling will simply put people off your book. I know that if I pick up a book and see, for example, "it's" where it should be "its", or "your" instead of "you're", it makes me think that if the writer hasn't bothered to get these things right, how much care has he or she taken with the actual story?

So yes, "essential" is my vote.
Comments as expected Harry and eloquently put. Thanx!
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvReadin View Post
This is true - we tend to do a lot of ! But the authors are getting in on the act:
http://daringnovelist.blogspot.co.uk...d-editors.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/book...eed-publishers (AH reckons editing is one of the most important services a publisher provides)
http://scbwi.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/...ll-speaks.html

as are the academics:
http://nola.copydesk.org/wp-media/editupdate2012.pdf

But there are of course, always some authors who think they know everything : http://mortimerjackson.hubpages.com/...Hire-An-Editor

Perhaps they should take note of what can happen if editing is ignored? (need to scroll down quite a bit): http://londonersdiary.standard.co.uk...s-pile-up.html
Sorry Luver, I clicked on so many links there, I forgot what the hell I was doing.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Dr. Drib View Post
Gramer are not good 'cause its too complication. Why comuinicate? I ass you. True, communications is importants to Indy writers - should be no doubts about its, but I arse you agains, why should communications be interests to anyones? Uh?
No,i ts clear as pimples on neck (see), that communicats should be most importantce for ever y one, and not jest Indy rigthers.
As I think most of us understood the above perfectly, I'd say following exacting grammar rules to be a bit outdated. I think the image below proves the same point with spelling.




Mistakes happen in 'communication' all the time. Proper spelling and grammar reduce the number significantly. It's not something that bothers me in the least. If a person can't spell or use correct rules of grammar, and I can still understand what he/she is trying to convey, I'm satisfied.


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Old 04-23-2012, 09:05 AM   #14
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Can you tell my professors here at grad school that grammar is not important any more???? PLEASE??
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:19 AM   #15
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Can you tell my professors here at grad school that grammar is not important any more???? PLEASE??
Spending most of my life in academia, I found waaaay too many people concerned more about grammar and spelling than about content. To me, that is just wrong on so many levels, and all too often wipes out that spark of desire to 'learn' that brings people to higher education in the first place.


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