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Old 04-23-2012, 11:50 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
"Split infinitives" are merely an example of the Victorian obsession with trying to force English into the mold of Latin grammar, even when it doesn't really fit. In Latin, an infinitive is a single word, and hence can't be split, therefore (the argument ran) you also shouldn't split an infinitive in English. Absolute nonsense (IMHO).
And one almost universally shared by modern authorities on grammar. And yet, it still lingers on, refusing to die!
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:51 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Justin Nemo View Post
Let me ask you Harry: where the hell did I say that?
It's what I understood you to mean when you said:

Quote:
shouldn't we all just lighten up a little and accept things for what they are?
My apologies if I misinterpreted what you were saying. Could you explain what you did mean if I got it wrong?
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:57 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
It's what I understood you to mean when you said:



My apologies if I misinterpreted what you were saying. Could you explain what you did mean if I got it wrong?
Tell you what, why don't you just read the post. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to work it out for yourself.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:58 AM   #49
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Tell you what, why don't you just read the post. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to work it out for yourself.
I have read it, and I've obviously misunderstood it. I'm evidently not as intelligent as you think I am!
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:58 AM   #50
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I have read it, and I've obviously misunderstood it. I'm evidently not as intelligent as you think I am!
Indeed
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:04 PM   #51
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It's what I understood you to mean when you said:



My apologies if I misinterpreted what you were saying. Could you explain what you did mean if I got it wrong?
OK let me see if I can clarify it for you:

A statement is a definite or clear expression of something in speech or writing. A question however is a sentence worded or expressed so as to elicit information. Any clearer?
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:07 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Justin Nemo View Post
A statement is a definite or clear expression of something in speech or writing. A question however is a sentence worded or expressed so as to elicit information. Any clearer?
A question beginning "Shouldn't we...." is, however, generally intended to be rhetorical, with the assumed answer "yes, we should" .
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:10 PM   #53
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[QUOTE=Stitchawl;2053997]As I think most of us understood the above perfectly, I'd say following exacting grammar rules to be a bit outdated. I think the image below proves the same point with spelling.



/QUOTE]

Not only can I read it, but I can read it at my normal reading speed. Which is even more odd since mistakes in normal text always leap out at me. I just can't switch the proof reader part of me off, even when I'm reading for fun rather than money. It's probably down to what you can accept as normal reality. I can't remember what it was called now, but Ian Banks wrote a book like that. A lot of people at the time said it was unreadable, but I didn't have any problems with it.
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:13 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
A question beginning "Shouldn't we...." is, however, generally intended to be rhetorical, with the assumed answer "yes, we should" .
That would be correct if your statement was true. But the question didn't begin that way did it? The question was:

“But does this, as Doc Nafario suggests, make you feel as though you are doing all the work of the author, or shouldn't we all just lighten up a little and accept things for what they are?”

How could I make an assumption from the first part of that sentence?
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:16 PM   #55
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That's a good point. Fair enough.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:28 PM   #56
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Being able to understand something does not make it a pleasure to read. I like to feel pleasure when I read, so I don't appreciate the challenge of poor spelling and grammar. A few mistakes are not a problem; every writer does that.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:22 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Justin Nemo View Post
That would be correct if your statement was true. But the question didn't begin that way did it? The question was:

“But does this, as Doc Nafario suggests, make you feel as though you are doing all the work of the author, or shouldn't we all just lighten up a little and accept things for what they are?”

How could I make an assumption from the first part of that sentence?
yes. i paid him to do the work, too.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:01 PM   #58
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Spending most of my life in academia, I found waaaay too many people concerned more about grammar and spelling than about content. To me, that is just wrong on so many levels, and all too often wipes out that spark of desire to 'learn' that brings people to higher education in the first place.


Stitchawl
Actually, a strong understanding of grammar can go hand-in-hand with content. A writer who understands the power behind even the smallest change in sentence structure--and not just how to eliminate errors and mistakes--will be a stronger writer.

Let's imagine a writer going through a multi draft editing process. On the first draft, she writes, "I like coffee. I don't like cake." Each of these sentences is grammatically correct on its own; however, the space in-between the sentences is a cavern of lost potential meaning. What is the relationship between the coffee and the cake?

Trying again, the writer combines her sentences: "I like coffee, but I don't like cake." We now have a coordinating conjunction, which places "coffee" and "cake" in the same category of things. In other words, they are merely items on a vast list of things. Here is my list of things I like. Here is my things I don't like. Why not pick one from each list and slap them together in a sentence?

Perhaps the writer decides to forgo the conjunctions and simply uses a semi-colon: "I like coffee; I don't like cake." As a strong grammarian, she knows that a semi-colon is used when there is a relationship between the two independent clauses. The sentence becomes slightly more intriguing: is a love of cake to be expected from someone who enjoys coffee? On the other hand, is disliking cake simply the logical consequence of liking coffee?

The writer tries once more to use grammar to express meaning. This time, she adds a subordinator: "I like coffee; unfortunately, I don't like cake." Suddenly, her sentence begins to tell a story of guilt and regret, which to my eyes is much more enticing to read than the two lonely and isolated sentences from the beginning of this journey.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:49 PM   #59
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Stickybuns? Coffee? Cake?
All this grammar talk is making me hungry.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:51 PM   #60
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You just gave me work then, working out that you meant by rather then, rather than, rather than. Not easy is it?
Heh.

The difference is that I accept that it was a mistake, rather than pretending it doesn't matter.
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