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Old 03-28-2012, 11:13 AM   #16
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I used the ordered dither algorithm , it looks much better!!!
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:31 AM   #17
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I used the ordered dither algorithm , it looks much better!!!
Show us!
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:00 PM   #18
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better doesn't mean perfect )))) it needs to improve more ))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr52Z...ature=youtu.be

Last edited by Ehhh; 03-28-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:43 PM   #19
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A bunch of the youtube videos were deleted, including one previously embedded here.


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Old 03-28-2012, 01:32 PM   #20
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better doesn't mean perfect )))) it needs to improve more ))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr52Z...ature=youtu.be
This looks awesome! keep up with your work
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:42 PM   #21
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This looks great, will it also run on a kindle 3.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:53 PM   #22
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If it won't, I'll likely port it :-)
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #23
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After all my posts in various threads trying so hard to convince everybody that dithered black and white is the ONLY way to go for eink video, it is nice to see things like gnuboy and this video player finally using these improved methods.

We can leave gray pixels to those nice anti-aliased static text pages, and keep using dithered black and white for video just like this.

I am still waiting for VNC showing live desktop PC video using dithered black and white, without the full-flash grayscale updates like the "flashy" YouTube kindle VNC video in the VNC thread. *Somebody* needs to add the dithered video drivers to VNC...

And since I got my first kindle, I wanted to use it as a sunlight-viewable video display for FPV video: http://vimeo.com/14217619

Or the ascii version: http://asciimeo.com/14217619

Thanks guys!

Last edited by geekmaster; 03-28-2012 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:56 PM   #24
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I am still waiting for VNC showing live desktop PC video using dithered black and white, without the full-flash grayscale updates like the "flashy" YouTube kindle VNC video in the VNC thread...
*cough* errm, yes, would be a "nice to have", indeed. However - I think this would only make sense with a much more elaborated dithering algorithm. A simple ordered dither will make every soooo much more fuzzy... In fact, I was reading up on dithering algorithms because of the PDF reader app (which has priority, because it already has real practical use for me). It doesn't dither to grayscale, making pixel images in PDFs look a bit too "flat" (although my english vocabulary isn't small anymore, I'm lost in how to describe those big areas of a single grayscale tone with hard borders to the neighboring areas). So, stopping to brabble in my non-existent beard here - I would really love to have a fast error diffusion dither. I think it could work well for the VNC images, too (and of course video&games). The problem mainly is the "fast" part.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:12 PM   #25
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*cough* errm, yes, would be a "nice to have", indeed. However - I think this would only make sense with a much more elaborated dithering algorithm. A simple ordered dither will make every soooo much more fuzzy... In fact, I was reading up on dithering algorithms because of the PDF reader app (which has priority, because it already has real practical use for me). It doesn't dither to grayscale, making pixel images in PDFs look a bit too "flat" (although my english vocabulary isn't small anymore, I'm lost in how to describe those big areas of a single grayscale tone with hard borders to the neighboring areas). So, stopping to brabble in my non-existent beard here - I would really love to have a fast error diffusion dither. I think it could work well for the VNC images, too (and of course video&games). The problem mainly is the "fast" part.
Yeah, dithering is not good for text, and VNC is MOSTLY used for text (the icons are generally redundant). But in the VNC demo video they showed a TV news program playing on the host PC desktop, mirrored to the kindle. In that special case, dithering would be nice. Now, if you want to get complicated, you could dither ONLY the parts of the image that are changing rapidly, and use grayscale for the parts that are static text.

I played with error diffusion a bit, but I personally liked an 8x8 ordered dither a LOT better on the eink displays. I memorized the Bayer ordered-dither matrix decades ago, and I can still type it out on demand from memory.

P.S. Those "big areas of a single grayscale tone with hard borders to the neighboring areas" are called "image segments", "blobs", "regions", "patches" (or other names). One way to find them is by using the "mexhat" function (similar to the one used in my algorithmic art scripts), but I think you would probably get a bigger kick from image segmentation using the "Hessian Blob Detector":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessian_matrix.

Last edited by geekmaster; 03-28-2012 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:33 PM   #26
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In other experiments for stuff I am not ready to publish, I resize and rotate images on the touch using the touchscreen, by keeping a full grayscale image and a hidden dithered image. I start by displaying the high-quality grayscale image, but when two fingers touch the screen I switch to hiding the grayscale image and showing the dithered image. That way I can resize and rotate the image as fast as the display drivers will allow without flashing updates. And after releasing the touchscreen, I display a resized and rotated grayscale image again.

Although fine details in the dithered image are very "fuzzy" compared to grayscale images, they are much better while moving than are grayscale images, so I use whichever version is best for the "mode" my graphics programs are in at any given time.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:41 PM   #27
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Thank you, this is a great idea. I like it so much, I think it's the perfect approach to panning (and rotation, maybe zoom). I think I'll try that in the PDF viewer. Since we have no pressed finger, probably a lazy grayscale repaint is in order. (And thanks for the pointer to the Hessian matrix!)

Sorry for bringing this thread somewhat further OT, but it will be a nice knowledge source for "doing fast updates" on e-ink in the future :-)
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:09 PM   #28
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Thank you, this is a great idea. I like it so much, I think it's the perfect approach to panning (and rotation, maybe zoom). I think I'll try that in the PDF viewer. Since we have no pressed finger, probably a lazy grayscale repaint is in order. (And thanks for the pointer to the Hessian matrix!)...
Regarding the panning, it will blur just like in the side-scroller gameboy ROMs on eink, but it should still be recognizable enough to do the job much better than using grayscale images. And dithered text actually scrolls a lot better than grayscale anti-aliased text too.

Also, I am tempted to use old pre-dithered bitmap fonts from early laser printers, which use only black and white hand-adjusted pixels for excellent dithered pixel content. I think old laser printer fonts would look great on eink, and they would scroll fast because no gray pixels.

Regarding the "lazy repaint", I would also provide a "Refresh" button for those who are too impatient to wait...

Regarding your English vocabulary, I think that your posts use better grammar and better choice of words than most native English speakers. I would think you are a native English speaker who teaches English if not for your occasional (but rare) grammatical errors unlike those made by native English speakers. The fact that you make the "wrong" errors is the key. CIA training would teach you how to make the "right" errors...


Last edited by geekmaster; 03-28-2012 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:20 PM   #29
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You can see just how fast these updates can be, by running my "vidtest" program for the K3 (which uses time-variant random dithering to demonstrate update speed). You can download it here: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho....php?p=2012359
does not run on Kindle Touch, right?
Started it, does nothing.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:28 PM   #30
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other question:
can we do the same "partial refresh" hack for smoother scrolling and such like this:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/16/27...l-refresh-mode
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