Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Amazon Kindle

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-12-2007, 06:28 PM   #16
CommanderROR
eink fanatic
CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.
 
CommanderROR's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,022
Karma: 4924
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Germany
Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2
Great news...and quick too! I don't see any legal issues either so this is a perfect release...
CommanderROR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 06:30 PM   #17
Barcey
Wizard
Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barcey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Barcey's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,323
Karma: 5856000
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canada
Device: Kobo Glo / PB360+ / PB902 / iPad3
Well they can't claim that it was an impossible technical hurdle to allow their customer's the choice of purchasing from other online book stores. Great work.
Barcey is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Enthusiast
Old 12-12-2007, 06:44 PM   #18
mrkai
Bit Wrangler
mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Posts: 181
Karma: 415
Join Date: Oct 2007
Device: Sony PRS-505
Sorry to be Mr. SpoilSport here...

...but this is a violation of your Kindle's TOS/Usage Terms. Might want to read them

Further, it is perfectly (ahem) legit for Amazon to invalidate everything on the device if used this way, should they choose to do so.

The More You Know™...It's One to Grow On!™

-K
mrkai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 06:46 PM   #19
Nate the great
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nate the great's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,453
Karma: 3290983
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkai View Post
...but this is a violation of your Kindle's TOS/Usage Terms. Might want to read them

Further, it is perfectly (ahem) legit for Amazon to invalidate everything on the device if used this way, should they choose to do so.

The More You Know™...It's One to Grow On!™

-K
Yes, it is. But since I never agreed to the TOS, it doesn't matter.
Nate the great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 06:51 PM   #20
Steven Lyle Jordan
Grand Sorcerer
Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Steven Lyle Jordan's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,482
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by azog View Post
Hadn't considered that. In that case, I guess it's probably not such a good idea. Most mobi sites allow you to have more than one device, but Amazon only allows Kindle content to be read on the Kindle (or multiple Kindles, from what I can discern).
Kindles can also read Mobi files directly, as well as Word DOC and PDF, according to their website.

Last edited by Steven Lyle Jordan; 12-12-2007 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Fact-checking.
Steven Lyle Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 06:55 PM   #21
mrkai
Bit Wrangler
mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Posts: 181
Karma: 415
Join Date: Oct 2007
Device: Sony PRS-505
The thing about things like that, Nate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the great View Post
Yes, it is. But since I never agreed to the TOS, it doesn't matter.
...is that your explict agreement isn't really necessary is it? Since Amazon can/does/will catalog what is on your (chuckle) gear when its connected to their network (along with what and when you've read, what you've annotated, etc) there really isn't much you can do about it...outside of not using Whispernet.

Such is the World when the assumption is that your customer is a thief,ne?

-K
mrkai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 06:57 PM   #22
mrkai
Bit Wrangler
mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Posts: 181
Karma: 415
Join Date: Oct 2007
Device: Sony PRS-505
Not if you buy them from another bookseller...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
Kindles can also read Mobi files directly, as well as Word DOC and PDF, according to their website.
...that DRM's them. Igor's brilliance aims to correct this...oversight. Of course, this is a violation of your Kindle/Amazon TOS and puts you at risk of having Amazon k-line your Kindle "purchases"
mrkai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 07:04 PM   #23
Nate the great
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nate the great's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,453
Karma: 3290983
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkai View Post
...is that your explict agreement isn't really necessary is it? Since Amazon can/does/will catalog what is on your (chuckle) gear when its connected to their network (along with what and when you've read, what you've annotated, etc) there really isn't much you can do about it...outside of not using Whispernet.

Such is the World when the assumption is that your customer is a thief,ne?

-K
They could do all those things anyway. Why worry about it?
Nate the great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 07:05 PM   #24
Steven Lyle Jordan
Grand Sorcerer
Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Steven Lyle Jordan's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,482
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkai View Post
...that DRM's them.
Maybe... within the Kindle. So what? You can import those from your computer, where those files are not DRM'd.
Steven Lyle Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 07:07 PM   #25
azog
Enthusiast
azog began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 49
Karma: 33
Join Date: Oct 2007
Device: Cybook Gen3, Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
Kindles can also read Mobi files directly, as well as Word DOC and PDF, according to their website.
Yes, I've actually already installed a number of non-DRM'ed Mobi books (Treasure Island, a couple of Tom Swifts, and something else). But that's the point: non-DRM. Anything I purchas directly from Mobi is non-readable by the Kindle (assuming that purchase == DRM, but that's not always the case, like with Baen, where you still need to buy the books, but they're apparently non-DRM).
azog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 07:12 PM   #26
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,979
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3 and Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkai View Post
...but this is a violation of your Kindle's TOS/Usage Terms.

Further, it is perfectly (ahem) legit for Amazon to invalidate everything on the device if used this way, should they choose to do so.
But are the TOS legal, and does Amazon want to go to court to find out? Legal or not, it would be public relations nightmare for Amazon to go after its early adopter customers for this. Far better would be to do what they should have done in the first place - open up the Kindle to DRMed MOBI files. After all, Amazon owns MobiPocket (so they make money either way: MOBI or AZW).
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 07:18 PM   #27
mrkai
Bit Wrangler
mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Posts: 181
Karma: 415
Join Date: Oct 2007
Device: Sony PRS-505
What "makes sense" and "is right" and "is legal"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
But are the TOS legal, and does Amazon want to go to court to find out? Legal or not, it would be public relations nightmare for Amazon to go after its early adopter customers for this. Far better would be to do what they should have done in the first place - open up the Kindle to DRMed MOBI files. After all, Amazon owns MobiPocket (so they make money either way: MOBI or AZW).
...isn't always congruent.

It can be argued (and by some here, pretty much, has been) it is immoral and inethical to buy books from some other bookseller and use on the Kindle, because you are in effect robbing Amazon of potential revenue as the Kindle is designed to only read DRM'd books from the Amazon Kindle Store

It could also be posited that, like AutoDesk and the Autocad "stealers" it would in fact be in Amazon's best interest to nip this in the bud to protect their reseller business by making "examples" out of these interlopers by k-lining their Kindle and severing the relationship.

Sticky, sticky, sticky
mrkai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 08:18 PM   #28
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,979
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3 and Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkai View Post
It can be argued (and by some here, pretty much, has been) it is immoral and inethical to buy books from some other bookseller and use on the Kindle, because you are in effect robbing Amazon of potential revenue as the Kindle is designed to only read DRM'd books from the Amazon Kindle Store
I suppose this might be true if Amazon gave me a Kindle for free. If Amazon is loosing money at $400 it is news to me. I certainly did not agree to buy a single AZW e-book as part of the deal. The copyright owners are happy to sell me a DRMed MOBI, and explicitly give me permission to read it on the Kindle (based on the Kindle PID I provide). Amazon says that a device that I paid $400 for must not be used to read an e-book which I legally own and legally have permission to read on the Kindle. Laws are strange things, but it is normally understood that, once purchased, stuff can be used for purposes other than those it was designed for. Note that there is no "theft" here. I buy a MOBI book with real money and a Kindle with real money, I don't violate copyright (no fair use exception needed - I have the permission of the copyright holder to do what I am doing). Amazon might make more or less money on the deal if I buy a AZW version vs a MOBI version (hard to say from the outside), the publisher and author gets the same amount either way.
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 08:51 PM   #29
mrkai
Bit Wrangler
mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Posts: 181
Karma: 415
Join Date: Oct 2007
Device: Sony PRS-505
I'm on your side here :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
I suppose this might be true if Amazon gave me a Kindle for free. If Amazon is loosing money at $400 it is news to me. I certainly did not agree to buy a single AZW e-book as part of the deal. The copyright owners are happy to sell me a DRMed MOBI, and explicitly give me permission to read it on the Kindle (based on the Kindle PID I provide). Amazon says that a device that I paid $400 for must not be used to read an e-book which I legally own and legally have permission to read on the Kindle. Laws are strange things, but it is normally understood that, once purchased, stuff can be used for purposes other than those it was designed for. Note that there is no "theft" here. I buy a MOBI book with real money and a Kindle with real money, I don't violate copyright (no fair use exception needed - I have the permission of the copyright holder to do what I am doing). Amazon might make more or less money on the deal if I buy a AZW version vs a MOBI version (hard to say from the outside), the publisher and author gets the same amount either way.
While everything you said is perfectly rational, it isn't really relevant

You see, by making a copy of this book from one format to another, you have violated copyright...as stupid as that is, because the rights holder hasn't given you permission to do this.

Further, you don't get to define the terms of your Amazon Kindle usage...Amazon does.

This is a very real example of the perils of a system that decides that because you might give away what you paid for, what you can do with what you licensed (you didn't buy anything, really according to the terms of your...purchase) you are already on the grey side, strolling dark.

if Amazon sells a copy of the book you already bought from somewhere else, and you make a copy of said book to view on the Kindle...you are a violator. Is the original still around in the original format? Hrm. Now you have "two books" but you only bought one.

See? If Amazon sells the book in question you are supposed to buy it from them. If they do not and it is encrypted, you do NOT have the "right" to use it on the Kindle...even tho you "own" both of these things

And according to some of the publishers and authors that frequent here, this is *perfectly sane and fair to them* because you could in theory give one of those copies to someone else somehow instead of having bought a copy for them, and you, because you can copy the kindlized one to the kindle to read, and read the other copy in mobipocket.

Yay Team!

Last edited by mrkai; 12-12-2007 at 08:56 PM.
mrkai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 09:23 PM   #30
mrkai
Bit Wrangler
mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.mrkai has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Posts: 181
Karma: 415
Join Date: Oct 2007
Device: Sony PRS-505
Because in this case...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the great View Post
They could do all those things anyway. Why worry about it?
...your "rights" as they were, can be superceded and undone by their "rights".

Amazon can decide that this usage of the Kindle is a violation and decide that you no longer get to read these books or any you "bought" from them on your Kindle anymore.

But I guess if people are fine with this sort of thing...rock on
mrkai is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to back up DRM-protected content? motjebben General Discussions 33 07-19-2010 04:44 PM
Classic Can DRM-protected ePub content from Overdrive be viewed using nook app on iPhone? doog_smith Barnes & Noble NOOK 9 02-05-2010 03:29 AM
Amazon Insists on DRM for Mobipocket eBooks JSWolf News 47 03-03-2009 06:28 PM
DRM protected Mobipocket books? helten Bookeen 11 07-17-2008 07:59 AM
Kindle DRM hacked to allow protected Mobipocket ebooks pilotbob Amazon Kindle 1 12-13-2007 01:38 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:47 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.