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Old 03-16-2012, 01:50 PM   #1
MrsJoseph
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DMP’s Kindle Publishing Suspended

From here:

Quote:
As March 15, 2012, Digital Manga Inc.’s account has been suspended from the Kindle platform. While we’re working to try and amend the situation, we will not be able to publish titles to the Kindle for the foreseeable future.
Our account was suspended under troubling circumstances - we have had titles cited for “content violation”, and while we screen every title to ensure they adhere to Kindle’s standards, their guidelines are notoriously vague, and prohibit “Pornography and hard-core material that depicts graphic sexual acts.”

There is no definition of “pornography” versus “erotica” officially available from amazon. In the past, we considered our titles the latter, and strive to comply with Amazon’s guidelines. However, with such vague guidelines and a veritable library of erotica in written and drawn form already available on the Kindle, it is difficult to discern exactly what rules Amazon wanted us to comply with. We also find it disheartening that our titles depicting male homosexual romance have been banned while erotica depicting other forms of intercourse flourishes. What makes relationships between men more objectionable than erotic tristes between men and women? This is a question we imagine you’re all asking yourselves right now, and a question that we need Amazon to answer for us.

While we work to restore our account, we encourage yaoi fans to explore alternate platforms for reading manga. Our titles are available on emanga.com, Nook (including free apps for your PC, iPad, or Android tablet), and on the DMP App for Apple products and Android Tablets. This event has also led us to pursue the possibility of making digital manga available through other platforms. We look forward to continuing to bring you all the best in manga content, yaoi or otherwise, and appreciate your continuing support.

SNIP
This is starting to sound familiar...
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:56 PM   #2
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How many times is Amazon going to do this before they finally come up with a clear and appropriate definition of what isn't allowed to be published on on the Kindle platform?
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:14 PM   #3
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Remember the mantra: Amazon is my friend and will do me no harm (I hope)!

DMP has been down this road before with Amazon. Why is it surprised that Amazon selectively and arbitrarily enforces its TOS?
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:50 PM   #4
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Their account has been restored. ( http://www.digitalmanga.com/blog/235...count-restored )


I'm not sure we're getting the full facts from the publisher. Manga is a Japanese comic form, and Digital Manga Inc's catalogue includes a genre called 'Yaoi' (You can view their offerings in the genre by searching for the terms "digital manga yaoi" in the kindle store currently).

As for what Yaoi is:


(http://www.junemanga.com/)

Is this what it seems to be? I don't know. I think DMI could be treading a fine line here. Some of the characters on their covers look awfully 'young' to me. Perhaps DMI could have mentioned the word 'young' in addition to 'homosexuality' and 'erotica', you know, in the interests of full disclosure.

Amazon certainly mentions explicitly that they may want to review their future offerings before publication.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howyoudoin View Post
Their account has been restored. ( http://www.digitalmanga.com/blog/235...count-restored )


I'm not sure we're getting the full facts from the publisher. Manga is a Japanese comic form, and Digital Manga Inc's catalogue includes a genre called 'Yaoi' (You can view their offerings in the genre by searching for the terms "digital manga yaoi" in the kindle store currently).

As for what Yaoi is:


(http://www.junemanga.com/)

Is this what it seems to be? I don't know. I think DMI could be treading a fine line here. Some of the characters on their covers look awfully 'young' to me. Perhaps DMI could have mentioned the word 'young' in addition to 'homosexuality' and 'erotica', you know, in the interests of full disclosure.

Amazon certainly mentions explicitly that they may want to review their future offerings before publication.
I read today that
Quote:
BL is Boys Love. It’s how the Japanese designate m/m novels, manga, anime. They don’t use yaoi over there so much because to them it’s derogatory.
and

Quote:
yaoi is a deprecated term and you only ever really see it in English-language circles. Back in the day, shounen ai was a common term too but it’s become obsolete. It’s also generally frowned upon because in Japan, it refers to pedophilia (e.g. liking young boys).

Bara is another m/m genre but whereas BL is predominantly created by women for women, bara is created by gay men for gay men.

Maybe this is one of the issues for the pub?

Last edited by MrsJoseph; 03-16-2012 at 02:53 PM. Reason: additional info
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsJoseph View Post
I read today that

and

Maybe this is one of the issues for the pub?
I don't think it's the term itself, since the books still have the word 'yaoi' in their titles on Amazon. It's probably the content. Amazon does state that they may want to review future offerings before publication.
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:43 PM   #7
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I do think DMP is skating a very thin line and Amazon caught them at it. I don't blame amazon in this case.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
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I do think DMP is skating a very thin line and Amazon caught them at it. I don't blame amazon in this case.
Do you feel it was a legal line or a moral one?

Also, is it known if Amazon was initiating this on their own or if it was triggered by complaint?

I'm not sure if the gray areas exist in the actual laws or just in my mind when it comes to the fictionalization of sexual situations of what would be, were they flesh and blood, minors. Anyone clarify?
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howyoudoin View Post
I think DMI could be treading a fine line here. Some of the characters on their covers look awfully 'young' to me.
That's the art style: Many manga and anime characters have big dewy eyes, dual-gender faces and childlike Caucasian features even though they supposed to be Japanese adults.

They look "like children" to most Americans and Europeans because Western art reserves a lot of those cartoon features for children; Japanese animation doesn't limit the drawing style the same way.
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_e View Post
Do you feel it was a legal line or a moral one?

Also, is it known if Amazon was initiating this on their own or if it was triggered by complaint?

I'm not sure if the gray areas exist in the actual laws or just in my mind when it comes to the fictionalization of sexual situations of what would be, were they flesh and blood, minors. Anyone clarify?
I feel it was a moral line given how Japanese animation can be drawn.
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_e View Post
Do you feel it was a legal line or a moral one?

Also, is it known if Amazon was initiating this on their own or if it was triggered by complaint?

I'm not sure if the gray areas exist in the actual laws or just in my mind when it comes to the fictionalization of sexual situations of what would be, were they flesh and blood, minors. Anyone clarify?
In the US, there are no laws against depicting any type of sex with fictional characters, no matter how young, no matter how graphic. US laws against "child pornography" are specifically related to real human children; they're a form of child-abuse law, not morality laws.

Parts of Europe & Australia have very different laws.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfwreck View Post
In the US, there are no laws against depicting any type of sex with fictional characters, no matter how young, no matter how graphic. US laws against "child pornography" are specifically related to real human children; they're a form of child-abuse law, not morality laws.

Parts of Europe & Australia have very different laws.
Thank you.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_e View Post

I'm not sure if the gray areas exist in the actual laws or just in my mind when it comes to the fictionalization of sexual situations of what would be, were they flesh and blood, minors. Anyone clarify?
In my state, the original statute said that the prosecution had to prove that a real human child (under 16yo) was depicted.This turned out to be nearly impossible. Cases were acquitted and the amount of child porn available grew. Now with "virtual" porn it's even harder to determine real from fake. NJ Congressmen were given several pictures to see if they could tell which of them were real. They could not. Now the law was changed with the state Supreme Court's approval that a jury can be used ( in certain circumstances) to determine whether the pictures are of real children or not using all available evidence and testimony. Since then arrests and convictions have risen considerably. We just recently had a lawyer plead guilty to possession. The reasoning was the law now slyly and indirectly puts the burden of proof on the defendant to prove the images are fake since a jury probably will not be 100% positive the pics are real or not.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:38 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfwreck View Post
That's the art style: Many manga and anime characters have big dewy eyes, dual-gender faces and childlike Caucasian features even though they supposed to be Japanese adults.

They look "like children" to most Americans and Europeans because Western art reserves a lot of those cartoon features for children; Japanese animation doesn't limit the drawing style the same way.
So it's a matter of our western age/youth-obsessed culture directly colliding with our puritanical posturing.

Are the stories in this particular genre written toward an adult female audience or are they written more for what I would refer to as YA/ young adult, or mid-teens?

Last edited by david_e; 03-17-2012 at 01:33 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:29 AM   #15
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Yaoi was a popular "underground" Manga movement about 20 years ago that entered the main stream Manga market around the millenium. It was wildly popular among JHS and HS girls who could be seen reading them (and giggling) on commuter trains and subways. Since entering main stream (i.e. available in regular book stores and conveninece outlets) they have seen a gradual decline in interest. Younger girls today are into Pon pon kyamu kyamu (can't even begin to explain it, look it up on Youtube if you're interested). Japanophile young girls in the west is the new market for Yaoi.
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