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Old 04-26-2012, 04:32 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by lorenzoens View Post
A rational actor can make a mistake without loosing the quality of being a rational actor.
Nice try to immunize your argument.
Only that we were talking about specific actions.
What would have been the reason to assess personal qualities oft the parties involved?

And of course I know that you might be an intelligent person and capable of rational thinking - you just seem to go out of your way to prove otherwise.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:40 AM   #422
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In short "Trolling" is what the original poster of this thread is doing.

Luck;
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Nice analysis of trolling.
Meanwhile I wonder if it is not that much trolling, but a rather deliberate putting down one device and preparing the stage for another : first device is reviewed completely critical and derogatory, the second(M92) gets over the top applause after using it for one day.
Looks like the Onyx M92 is the ideal reader in her opinion, without mentioning what are the good points in detail.
We knew befoe that the display is excellent ...
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:09 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by Valentinka View Post
Yes, lorenzoens, my camera is ready. What exactly would you like me to compare with my camera (probably not in this thread, if JBC will not participate in this comparison)?
How dear

Where in this forum:
I don't see reasons to exclude any of your readers, I'd include all four (ipad 3, M92, JBC, DXG) but maybe we can choose another place. I suggest to avoid the Apple section, we know fandom may be a real hassle in case someone would think we're criticizing their fav gadget.

All considered, if you can portrait all your readers, we (you) might start a thread in a general topics place like "Which one should I buy?" (any suggestion is welcome). Otherwise a less crowded place would be the Boox section.

The topic should be something like "a photo comparison between large ereaders". You happen to have a very nice collection now, didnt see anything similar on the web, so it deserves a proper place.

The pictures:
the scheme could be the one you already tried: outside with sun (max lightness on ipad), inside with artificial lighting, inside with low light (bed-like).
I'd only ask you to add a picture for each of the three ambiences, showing the environment around so that people can have an idea of the kind of lighting around.

With 4 readers involved it'll be really difficult to have a proper focus on all the four devices together, so you may consider the option of using a stand and shooting 1 reader at a time, in the same exact place and light conditions.

You know, people expect from you the final demonstration of the Truth when you make such photo comparatives

How to publish
I suggest of using a single post inside the same thread, for each of the different ambiences.


The files:
I) a pdf with text and colours II) an epub/mobi. Displayed at the same size.

Example:

New thread - a photo comparison between large ereaders
first post: brief introduction on the comparison

second post: the readers in ambience 1, with both files displayed + the environment shown = 9 pics
third post: the readers in ambience 2 (like above, 9 pics)
fourth post: the readers in ambience 3 (like above, 9 pics)

What do you think? There's the possibility that a thread like this can become a sticky focusing on similar comparisons from other users. Other suggestions appreciated.


Notes:
a nice bonus would be to add the ipad 2 too
if the ipads in the sun won't read well, it doesn't care, just avoid reflections when possible
you might as well add a single "family portrait" of all the readers together in each ambience, in the end of the single shots. We'd have 10 shots for each ambience, which is more than enough.
you might consider using an external photos sharing service

Last edited by lorenzoens; 04-26-2012 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:09 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by geronimo View Post
... first device is reviewed completely critical and derogatory, the second(M92) gets over the top applause after using it for one day.
Looks like the Onyx M92 is the ideal reader in her opinion, without mentioning what are the good points in detail.
We knew befoe that the display is excellent ...
geronimo,

If you would like to ask me to review M92, too, than you could do it in more polite manner.

I spent so much time providing this forum's users with information about JBC because not much honest information about JBC was available at that time. Since a lot of mystery was going on around JBC at that time (together with the lack of the honest information), there was the interest expressed by some forum's users wishing to learn more about JBC. I tryed to help them with that.

As far as M92, there are A LOT of information ALREADY available. For example, you can look at Spanish forum (Google can translate it for you if you need to): http://www.lectoreselectronicos.com/...Boox-M92-Black.

If you want me to compare JBC and M92 and post some pictures, I certainly can do that. There is also another user at this forum (Friday13th) who owns now both M92 and JBC. He seems to be more positive toward JBC than I am. Maybe he can do this comparison if you need it.

Personally, I don't think it even makes sense to compare JBC with M92, Kindle DXG, Sony T1, iPad 3, since JBC lives in completely different dimension. JBC is kind of cheap, low-end and low quality electronic device which is not priced respectively. Who would, for example, compare iPhone 4S with Motorola phone? Yes, there is the market share for Motorola phone since it priced much better than iPhone. And some people voluntarily choose, for example, Motorola and not iPhone 4s, since the price is more important for them than quality and additional features that iPhone offers. In my opinion, JBC badly looses to all of high-end eReaders practically in every important area (except the battery life as some JBC's users noted): dark grey backround of eInk screen (which causes big eye strain for some people, including myself), slow speed, annoying ghosting, very limited reading features (for example, absence of automatic page alignment for PDF files, page margines cannot be changed, and etc, etc, etc - believe me (or you can read the posts from other JBC's owners) - this list is VERY long). And all this stuff would be OK (and expected) for very low-end electronic device (like JBC is) if JBC would be priced respectively (MUCH less than $500 as it is priced now). Maybe, if JBC would be priced let's say around $170-180, than it would be ideal device for some people and I would understand it. But even with this much lower price JBC woudn't be for me - I would rather save money and buy high-end eReader which I can truly enjoy. But this is due to my own personality since I hate the junk stuff. My philosophy is "Do things WELL or don't do them at all". I am kind of perfectionist which might not be very good thing over all. But I am who I am and this is the part of my character. We all are humans and we all are different.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:51 PM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenzoens View Post

Where in this forum: ...

The topic ....
The pictures:
the scheme could be the one you already tried...

You know, people expect from you the final demonstration of the Truth when you make such photo comparatives

How to publish...

The files: ...


Example:

New thread - a photo comparison between large ereaders
first post: brief introduction on the comparison

second post: the readers in ambience 1, with both files displayed + the environment shown = 9 pics
third post: the readers in ambience 2 (like above, 9 pics)
fourth post: the readers in ambience 3 (like above, 9 pics)

What do you think? There's the possibility that a thread like this can become a sticky focusing on similar comparisons from other users. Other suggestions appreciated.
lorenzoens,

Thanks for sharing A LOT OF creative ideas in your last post. They all look very appealing to me. When I will be ready, I can try to put life into your ideas.
The only thing I am not sure about is if I should include JBC into this comparison. People know my negative attitude toward JBC. At the same time I really enjoy all my other devices.

I just would like to avoid unnecessary speculations about my personal attitude toward some brands and discussions about all this trolling stuff. It would be more interesting for me to focus on devices themselves instead of these senseless (for me at least) and annoying speculations and blaming each other in I don't know what.

Also JBC, in my opinion, is not as high-end device as others devices from "my collection" are. By the way, the word "collection" sounds pretty strange for me because we are not having them for display. Instead our family is using them very actively (and sometimes some of our family members even are fighting for them (JBC is the exception, though, since nobody fights for it)).

Maybe for this reason I should just exclude JBC from the comparison?

Last edited by Valentinka; 04-26-2012 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:10 PM   #426
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I guess someone will have something to complain if you exclude it too, so it's your choice. From an informative point of view, the more the better. After all, even if it'd cease to exist tomorrow, it'd still be a tiny piece in the ereader history.

Sorry for using the word Collection in a not appropriate way, I didnt mean that a collection is there just to be showcased. I had a nice collection of guitars, but played them all intensively! Sorry it's my non native english I guess.
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:17 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenzoens View Post

According to what Luke from the italian ebook museum, the e-inks washing out at direct sunlight affected early devices, now they're better (probably not immune though).
yes it was a manufacturing quality control issue that Prime View acknowledged and fixed, hopefully forever, some 3 years ago. I had several conversations with Eink and PrimeView about it at CES and SID back then. My suppliers at the time replaced every single customer's device that showed the issue with only a small amount of pushing from me.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:18 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by Dulin's Books View Post
yes it was a manufacturing quality control issue that Prime View acknowledged and fixed, hopefully forever, some 3 years ago. I had several conversations with Eink and PrimeView about it at CES and SID back then. My suppliers at the time replaced every single customer's device that showed the issue with only a small amount of pushing from me.
Not really true,
Although the issue is very visible on the older Sony PRS-505, many devices fabricated today still suffer from the issue. But then again, no one is going to leave an e-ink in the sun for 30 minutes without refreshing the screen.
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:28 PM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentinka View Post
Yes, lorenzoens, my camera is ready. What exactly would you like me to compare with my camera (probably not in this thread, if JBC will not participate in this comparison)?
Yes, iPad 3 has highest resolution (pretty noticable in books), best colors, of cause, but not eInk.
Black M92 feels to me a lot like my Sony T1 (very similar screen type and screen color, speed) with just larger screen, higher resolution and a little different features. So M92 is close to my ideal eReader (Sony T1 with larger screen) which I described earlier. M92 doesn't have Android on it like Sony T1 does (so I can't install Kindle or Nook apps on M92 like I did with my Sony T1).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenzoens View Post
How dear

Where in this forum:
I don't see reasons to exclude any of your readers, I'd include all four (ipad 3, M92, JBC, DXG) but maybe we can choose another place. I suggest to avoid the Apple section, we know fandom may be a real hassle in case someone would think we're criticizing their fav gadget.

All considered, if you can portrait all your readers, we (you) might start a thread in a general topics place like "Which one should I buy?" (any suggestion is welcome)....
I think for a thread of that nature, "Which one should I buy?" would be an excellent forum.
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:10 PM   #430
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Thank you very much Mod for the contribution :-)

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Not really true,
Although the issue is very visible on the older Sony PRS-505, many devices fabricated today still suffer from the issue. But then again, no one is going to leave an e-ink in the sun for 30 minutes without refreshing the screen.
The problem affected displays no matter what did you do, refresh or not some displays turned white, sometimes forever.

You may be referring to another phenomenon: the particles's mobility affected by external temperature
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:58 AM   #431
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geronimo,

If you would like to ask me to review M92, too, than you could do it in more polite manner.



As far as M92, there are A LOT of information ALREADY available. For example, you can look at Spanish forum (Google can translate it for you if you need to): http://www.lectoreselectronicos.com/...Boox-M92-Black.
Okay, I am sorry, it wasn't meant that way.
I simply tend to be critical.
I know many of the reports on M92 and very many are very critical.
Often Pdf-files are not rendered properly, random freezing, calibration, poor navigation, and others.
So I was wondering what is your specific experience so far?
How often do you use the reader?
Could you read your documents? Did the device freeze and what did you have to do to get it going? Nothing annoying at all? Some people are waiting for firmware updates for months now, this doesn't seem to bother you.
So I was not interested in a comparison of the displays. This topic has been covered ad nauseam and everybody knows what to expect.
So all or most your expectations have been met?
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:26 AM   #432
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What the hell going on in this thread?

Today I ordered my device with full confidence.

It's an early color product and, of course, there will be better products in 2 - 3 years.

Think about it: Most of the people are still using LCD tablets for reading. So enjoy the product now and don't search for tiny annoying things that don't matter that much.

Last edited by joblack; 04-27-2012 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:07 AM   #433
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Personally, I don't think it even makes sense to compare JBC with M92, Kindle DXG, Sony T1, iPad 3, since JBC lives in completely different dimension. JBC is kind of cheap, low-end and low quality electronic device which is not priced respectively. Who would, for example, compare iPhone 4S with Motorola phone? Yes, there is the market share for Motorola phone since it priced much better than iPhone. And some people voluntarily choose, for example, Motorola and not iPhone 4s, since the price is more important for them than quality and additional features that iPhone offers. In my opinion, JBC badly looses to all of high-end eReaders practically in every important area (except the battery life as some JBC's users noted): dark grey backround of eInk screen (which causes big eye strain for some people, including myself), slow speed, annoying ghosting, very limited reading features (for example, absence of automatic page alignment for PDF files, page margines cannot be changed, and etc, etc, etc - believe me (or you can read the posts from other JBC's owners) - this list is VERY long). And all this stuff would be OK (and expected) for very low-end electronic device (like JBC is) if JBC would be priced respectively (MUCH less than $500 as it is priced now). Maybe, if JBC would be priced let's say around $170-180, than it would be ideal device for some people and I would understand it. But even with this much lower price JBC woudn't be for me - I would rather save money and buy high-end eReader which I can truly enjoy. But this is due to my own personality since I hate the junk stuff. My philosophy is "Do things WELL or don't do them at all". I am kind of perfectionist which might not be very good thing over all. But I am who I am and this is the part of my character. We all are humans and we all are different.
It's amazing how some people are happy to be ripped off, and what is worse they dare to compare two tottally opposite things as Android and iOS are. It happens the same with JBC and the rest of devices. How easy is to state things without any reasonable argument, how easy is to be blind about other people needs and just focus in their nonesense entertainment.

Anyway, the fact is that any of us who own a JBC ain't flaming about any other reader in any other forum, cause we(or at least I) are more than satisfied with our device, it does what we need it to do, and what is best, it has a very wide margin of improvement. But it's really funny how some people are in need to come here and point us how good their device is and how bad JBC has turned out I couldn't care less about Onyx m92 or any other, I come to Jetbook forum to read things about Jetbook, so PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, I beg to you, shiny lucky m92 users, that you feel proud about your extraordinary devices in Onyx forum or whatever and leave us poor ignorant owners of JBC to discuss about our insignificant devices in peace. Cause each time any of you come to this forum and remind us how miserable we are for not owning a m92 we have nothing to do buy cry all day and desire nothing but death

Thank's m92(and other devices) users! I know you will understand our misfortune and won't be bully any more with us.

Sorry for my English!!

Cheers!
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:12 PM   #434
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JBC is kind of cheap, low-end and low quality electronic device which is not priced respectively. Who would, for example, compare iPhone 4S with Motorola phone?
Actually the iPhone 4S costs 203 USD to build (might be even less today)

http://www.cultofmac.com/121514/appl...-build-report/

so you might argue that the iPhone 4S is cheap and heavily overpriced.

The price of an eink display is quite high (I broke one in the past and had to replace it) so this component is the expensive hardware part.

Anyway, I don't mind about this hardware fanboy war. I almost like all eink devices and I own several of them (Kindle 4, Kindle DX, Irex 1000S, Sony Reader).

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Old 04-27-2012, 03:51 PM   #435
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the build quality and materials used in the jbc are far from cheap!
It's actually quite an expensive device as is, because,
a metal frame,
high capacity batteries
a touch pen system
e-ink technology,
solid metal shielded electronics inside,
etc...

It could be optimized by lots, and made cheaper; but when (was it Toshiba?) comes out with their flex e-ink screens,they're all going to be 1024x768 resolution, lower than the JBC, and you'll have very few deviations from that standard.
You'll see these devices,and only those on the market soon,as regular e-ink with glass substrate costs too much to fabricate. (think of 1/2 to 1/3rd the price just for a flex e-ink, with the same feats).
No one will bother with a JBC nor M9x anymore!
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