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Old 04-05-2012, 12:42 PM   #361
rolexconfuse
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@rolexconfuse: All they need to do is:

Invent the technology that will support the 11 points of your list of requirements. There is no such technology today. You can't get good battery life with a unit less than 1 lb and fast page turns with fast processors and huge ram and high resolution screens the size of text books.

Dale
I'm no electrical engineer but I can't imagine how that a non back lit screen would consume more power than a back lit lcd screen. Sure a bigger E-ink screen would use more power but more than a back lit screen?

As for the sliders/wheels and buttons those are all just hardware buttons mapped to software.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:37 PM   #362
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I'm no electrical engineer but I can't imagine how that a non back lit screen would consume more power than a back lit lcd screen. Sure a bigger E-ink screen would use more power but more than a back lit screen?

As for the sliders/wheels and buttons those are all just hardware buttons mapped to software.
I am sorry, I do not understand you comment? I didn't say a thing about backlit vs non-backlit nor did I say anything about buttons. E-Ink is very frugal on power but cannot be changed very rapidly. Larger screens with more pixels take longer to change. Check the latest iPad which is heavier and more power hungry than it predecessor. It is certainly not under 1 lb nor is any like sized product on the market, e-Ink or LED. Nothing but E-ink begins to reach your targeted power consumption (battery life).
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:34 PM   #363
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Actually with the upcoming of the flexible e-ink screens, I'm absolutely sure at least the weight of a JBC could easily be halved. The reason the JBC is so heavy is because of the many metal shielding plates inside it (shielding from RF from the pen input), the glass substrate display, as well as the housing which is made with a metal frame because of protecting the glass screen from torqing and breaking.
I hope they'd use foil instead of metal plates in their next version, if foil proves effective.
But if you just take away the pen-input and give the JBC a flexible e-ink the weight could be less than a quarter of it's current weight; as they could also reduce the weight of the housing a lot!

It'd work in it's own favor, reducing the weight would need a less strong housing, while a less strong housing/frame would reduce the weight of the housing even more, needing an even less strong frame.

I can see perhaps half a year from now, a Jetbook kind of device, sold with just a plastic border. If it does not have pen input, it could have 2 x 4way controllers, and some menu buttons, small electronic print board (not the large one the JBC has), and a small compartment for batteries.

A little bit like the bigger brother of the Jetbook Mini,for about the same weight!
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:21 PM   #364
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I am sorry, I do not understand you comment? I didn't say a thing about backlit vs non-backlit nor did I say anything about buttons. E-Ink is very frugal on power but cannot be changed very rapidly. Larger screens with more pixels take longer to change. Check the latest iPad which is heavier and more power hungry than it predecessor. It is certainly not under 1 lb nor is any like sized product on the market, e-Ink or LED. Nothing but E-ink begins to reach your targeted power consumption (battery life).
I understand that E-ink does not change very rapidly but have you seen the 6 inch B&N touch? It's 6 inches but that thing changes very fast, even faster than the Kindle DX. I understand there's a limit to how fast it can change and eventually you'll hit that mark with the currently technology. So I don't expect a larger display to change as fast as a 6 inch display but I would hope that it also won't take 60 secs to refresh either.

The new ipad takes more power and is heavier because of the increase resolution and screen type that they are using. The ipad2 was 1.18 lbs in weight which is pretty close to 1lb. But also remember that the ipads have larger battery due to the back lit screen. And it also uses aluminum instead of plastic or carbon fiber.
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:16 PM   #365
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I find the refresh rates of most e-ink devices are quite sufficient!
Before you read the last word on the page, and can skip to the first word on the next page, the page has already refreshed. The Jetbook is somewhat on the slower side (about 2 seconds max for a refresh, which is a far cry from '60 seconds'),because of it's 4times the resolution of most 5 and 6" ebook readers, but you can easily adopt to it.
In fact, turning a page on a real physical book takes about just as much time (if not more,especially when pages are sticking together).

You can always press the button when you're reading the last couple of words, or the last row of text on a page, saving some of the time in the refresh procedure.

A fast refresh is less important to me than long battery life.
It is possible to have LCD speed refresh rates on E-ink, but that requires enormous power (more than an LCD would need). The lower the (electrical) power they use, the slower the refresh goes, but the longer the battery lasts.
For most people it would hardly make a difference if a book's page refreshed in .75 seconds instead of 1, but it would if their battery life decreased by 25%!

Last edited by ProDigit; 04-05-2012 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:17 PM   #366
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I understand that E-ink does not change very rapidly but have you seen the 6 inch B&N touch? It's 6 inches but that thing changes very fast, even faster than the Kindle DX. I understand there's a limit to how fast it can change and eventually you'll hit that mark with the currently technology. So I don't expect a larger display to change as fast as a 6 inch display but I would hope that it also won't take 60 secs to refresh either.

The new ipad takes more power and is heavier because of the increase resolution and screen type that they are using. The ipad2 was 1.18 lbs in weight which is pretty close to 1lb. But also remember that the ipads have larger battery due to the back lit screen. And it also uses aluminum instead of plastic or carbon fiber.
I would hope any 6" would be faster than a 9.7" DX but as 9.7" devices go the DX is fairly fast. The larger display is a factor and calculating and setting up the display to be displayed also takes time. This is why PDF is typically slower than ePub or AZW.

The iPad has a bigger battery, not just because of the backlight, but because it is trying to achieve 10 hours of battery life. The backlight is only part of the issue. Even the older non-backlit Jetbooks have a battery life less than a day with a 5" display. Neither of these will reach your stated battery life requirement. Bigger batteries are heavier. Is pretty close to 1 lb good enough for you? I thought you wanted it less than a pound.

Anyway, the point is that I believe the current makers could do a bit better but not achieve the ambitious goals you stated in your requirements. At some point we'll be there. Perhaps the long awaited flexible screen will help but they have been trying to bring that to market for a long time now.

Dale
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:22 PM   #367
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I would never imagine a e-reader to be less than a 1 lb in weight with today's current technology. I think anything that's 1lb or slight over is a good weight.
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:11 PM   #368
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Here is one more opinion on JBC: http://news.consumerreports.org/elec...ok-reader.html

I hope this review can also help people to stay more informed before considering to invest into JBC...

And if somebody is still thinking about getting JBC, I highly recommend using Paypal as the payment option because of Paypal's fair buyers protection policy. It is very likely that (in case if you decide to purchase JBC) you will need somebody else's help to protect your customer's rights while dealing with Ectaco.

Last edited by Valentinka; 04-05-2012 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:06 AM   #369
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Yeah, we have just said Triton is not ready to support photographic material with the quality of led/lcd screen. But Jetbook Color has another scope.
I think there is much more material on MobileRead (just register and do a "Jetbook color" search) than over internet to make an idea of what JBC can do and what can't.
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Old 04-06-2012, 07:56 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Valentinka View Post
Here is one more opinion on JBC: http://news.consumerreports.org/elec...ok-reader.html

I hope this review can also help people to stay more informed before considering to invest into JBC...

And if somebody is still thinking about getting JBC, I highly recommend using Paypal as the payment option because of Paypal's fair buyers protection policy. It is very likely that (in case if you decide to purchase JBC) you will need somebody else's help to protect your customer's rights while dealing with Ectaco.
So I gather you could/did not return the device? What seems to be the problem? Are you definetly stuck with it?
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:06 AM   #371
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So I gather you could/did not return the device? What seems to be the problem? Are you definetly stuck with it?
ignacio ferrer,

"Definetly stuck with it" is a very right expression that describes my situation exactly how it is. Paypal did a great job. They were able to recover and refund me my money. So financially I am fine. But I still have JBC since Ectaco refused the delivery after I shipped my JBC to them following PayPal instruction. JBC just arrived back to our house yesterday. JBC is just like a parasite that sticked to our place. For PayPal the most important thing is that the buyer (myself in this case) ATTEMPTED the return. So Paypal closed the case and refunded me my money this week. I would be more than happy to ship my JBC to Ectaco again but this time Ectaco has to pay the shipping fee.
The part of my transaction with Ectaco was that I traded in my old reader (which doesn't worth more than $50) to Ectaco in order to pay less for JBC. I guess I can consider that I traded my old junk device for the new junk one (JBC).

Last edited by Valentinka; 04-06-2012 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:28 AM   #372
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Call it junk it a bit unfair even if you are not satisfied with it. Anyway now you can consider to sell it, right?
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:27 AM   #373
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ok i read all JBC threads completly now.
it is hard for me to take Valentinka serious.
ok there are some good pictures, but Valentinka was not able to take a picture in which the readers are showing exactly the same and so it is not possible to compare them.
on most of the pictures there is a big margin on the JBC and on the kindle the text is filling the complete display --> text is bigger --> color is more powerfull
for example on post 239: there is light comming from the right side and you see that the picture is getting darker and darker from the right to the left. the JBC is on the left side of course.
on the pictures that are good for comparison, the JBC doesnt look so bad for me.

the next thing is the statement of the light. "american standard light" really helpful Oo

what i'm really intrested in is a comparison between the JBC and the Kindle DX like in post #327. but the JBC alone on that picture is nothing. the picture looks like it is 3am and there is only a 20W light burning in a big room.

Last edited by Friday13th; 04-06-2012 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:36 PM   #374
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ignacio ferrer,

"Definetly stuck with it" is a very right expression that describes my situation exactly how it is. Paypal did a great job. They were able to recover and refund me my money. So financially I am fine. But I still have JBC since Ectaco refused the delivery after I shipped my JBC to them following PayPal instruction. JBC just arrived back to our house yesterday. JBC is just like a parasite that sticked to our place. For PayPal the most important thing is that the buyer (myself in this case) ATTEMPTED the return. So Paypal closed the case and refunded me my money this week. I would be more than happy to ship my JBC to Ectaco again but this time Ectaco has to pay the shipping fee.
The part of my transaction with Ectaco was that I traded in my old reader (which doesn't worth more than $50) to Ectaco in order to pay less for JBC. I guess I can consider that I traded my old junk device for the new junk one (JBC).
This is a very good receipt for getting a JBC for free :-D
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:38 PM   #375
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Call it junk it a bit unfair even if you are not satisfied with it. Anyway now you can consider to sell it, right?
According to PayPal I can do everything I want with JBC now. I decided to keep my JBC for a while for now just in case if Ectaco will decide to pay the shipping fee and get JBC back. Which would be pretty logical decision from Ectaco, I believe. What Ectaco is doing doesn't make any sense to me and doesn't follow any reasonable logic.

About calling JBC junked. I have it for almost a month by now. All I can tell so far is that nobody in our family was able to use it for serious, enjoyable reading or studying since it causes pretty severe eye strain for all of us in most of light conditions. Not even to mention how JBC displays the colors. The only usage I found for my JBC is just taking pictures of it and educating people about JBC's REAL features (which are very different from JBC's official specifications). I guess I can also have fun while following Ectaco's firmware updates for JBC and observing if these updates are making any difference. This is pretty much all I can do with my JBC.
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