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Old 02-15-2012, 04:13 PM   #61
murraypaul
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Originally Posted by Sil_liS View Post
What makes you think that the same practices are happening at other factories?
http://www.electronista.com/articles...ue.statements/
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Microsoft and Foxconn have announced that they have resolved the dispute with Foxconn employees, who threatened to suicide en masse.
http://www.electronista.com/articles...mpanys.plants/
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Another fire has hit a Foxconn factory, this time in China's Shandong province, reports say. There are no accounts of injuries, and Foxconn reports that the fire has already been extinguished. The manufacturer suggests that the fire was probably caused by abandoned pipelines left on top of the building.

Because assembly lines are said to have been undamaged, production is expected to continue as usual. Foxconn's Shandong plants produce a variety of electronics, including phones, TVs, game consoles and notebooks. Some smartphone production has been relocated to other factories in recent times.
No mention of Apple there.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:15 PM   #62
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Then encourage your friends who buy products from Apple and Amazon to not buy products from Apple and Amazon.

And Dell, HP, Microsoft, Nintendo, Nokia, Sony and others in the industry as well.

Why do I think it is more then one or two factories in China? Because this pattern of labor abuse has existed since before the industrial revolution. Because we heard similar stories coming out of every country/region of the world were manufacturing has moved. Because we heard similar stories coming from China regarding the garmant industry and it was a widespread problem there.

There is a long standing pattern, hundreds of years old. Once you see that pattern re-emerge in some place new (China) you can pretty quickly figure out that the one bad deed is hiding many, many more bad deeds.

And because there are many articles which list the companies that buy from this one company (several listed here) that people are chosing to ignore because they are not Apple.
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:54 PM   #63
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Then encourage your friends who buy products from Apple and Amazon to not buy products from Apple and Amazon.

And Dell, HP, Microsoft, Nintendo, Nokia, Sony and others in the industry as well.

Why do I think it is more then one or two factories in China? Because this pattern of labor abuse has existed since before the industrial revolution. Because we heard similar stories coming out of every country/region of the world were manufacturing has moved. Because we heard similar stories coming from China regarding the garmant industry and it was a widespread problem there.

There is a long standing pattern, hundreds of years old. Once you see that pattern re-emerge in some place new (China) you can pretty quickly figure out that the one bad deed is hiding many, many more bad deeds.

And because there are many articles which list the companies that buy from this one company (several listed here) that people are choosing to ignore because they are not Apple.
Agreed! The issue isn't Apple only, it's American Capitalism/Business that helps support a corrupt and heinous government (China) that is very capitalistic in working their people to death and having horrible safety and labor standards (which don't exist really). The Chinese government has a lot to do with the companies out there in not treating their workers well, and giving them horrible pay wages.

Any business that can outsource to China (or any country) for cheaper production and yield higher profits, will do so.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:02 PM   #64
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I'll ask again: which company had over 100 people die in the manufacturing process because of the use of toxic solutions? Which company had a factory explosion after ignoring reports and a previous explosion caused by the same manufacturing process?
The first company is called Wintek. And if you want to be accurate, you should stop repeating that the workers died.

The second company is called Foxconn.

Both produce products for many many manufacturers.

But, I know, it's easier to pretend that it's all Apple's fault.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:04 PM   #65
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Agreed! The issue isn't Apple only, it's American Capitalism/Business that helps support a corrupt and heinous government (China) that is very capitalistic in working their people to death and having horrible safety and labor standards (which don't exist really). The Chinese government has a lot to do with the companies out there in not treating their workers well, and giving them horrible pay wages.

Any business that can outsource to China (or any country) for cheaper production and yield higher profits, will do so.
You crack me up, ask the workers in China if they prefer the current system of "capitalistic exploitation" or the old communist system under Mao. Except for some old party cadre who lost their privileges and some ex students who enjoyed beating up on the teachers during the cultural revolution you will not find any. Capitalism was the only thing that lifted living standards in South East Asia to the levels of today. All these countries seemed hopeless before foreign investment took off. And look at countries like the Philippines, which have been generally unfriendly to investors. The Philippines went from being the second richest country in Asia after WWII to falling way behind even China today.

In today's China the workers are in control. They have the pick of places to work at and after every Chinese New Year holiday up to 30% change to better paying jobs. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Workers at companies in the electronics industry routinely make 3-500 USD a month in real wages (the wages given are base wages, not take-home pay), they can eat and live at the factory. In China you easily save at least half of that. Wages have been going up around 20 to 30% every year for the last 5 years.

Last edited by HansTWN; 02-15-2012 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:47 AM   #66
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You crack me up, ask the workers in China if they prefer the current system of "capitalistic exploitation" or the old communist system under Mao. Except for some old party cadre who lost their privileges and some ex students who enjoyed beating up on the teachers during the cultural revolution you will not find any. Capitalism was the only thing that lifted living standards in South East Asia to the levels of today. All these countries seemed hopeless before foreign investment took off. And look at countries like the Philippines, which have been generally unfriendly to investors. The Philippines went from being the second richest country in Asia after WWII to falling way behind even China today.

In today's China the workers are in control. They have the pick of places to work at and after every Chinese New Year holiday up to 30% change to better paying jobs. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Workers at companies in the electronics industry routinely make 3-500 USD a month in real wages (the wages given are base wages, not take-home pay), they can eat and live at the factory. In China you easily save at least half of that. Wages have been going up around 20 to 30% every year for the last 5 years.

No offense but I don't think you read very well, I have never said that workers are better off without capitalism there, nor did I say that the work of old was any better. I know for a fact that working at places like Foxconn, Pegatron, Quanta, ect. are far better than other places - otherwise those workers could go elsewhere, and yes they're pay is going to as good as it's allowed (again millions of people are replaceable). Sure the work conditions are rough and rather brutal in comparison to the standards we have elsewhere - but it is the best option available compared to other places.

What I did write and you failed to comprehend is that everyone is complaining about American corporate business practices in exploiting a obviously cheaper and more profitable means of production, and that blaming 1 singular company is ridiculous. The overall issue that everyone seems to gripe about is a general practice of international outsourcing - if anyone wants to make such things better - they would have to acknowledge that and hold outsourcing to questionable countries like China, where there really isn't any standards of quality or human rights. IF you want to have a device made in a better place with better care for their workers, then it has to be at least outsourced elsewhere.

The workers have some power, but don't be naive in thinking that if a lot of them leave or protest - that it would matter. The businesses and the government are about cash plain and simple. Anyone is replaceable.

So apparently you don't know how to read, or know what your talking about.
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Old 02-16-2012, 03:27 AM   #67
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Seems like you didn't understand what I said. I wasn't talking about Foxconn in particular, I was talking about OEM factories in general. Actually I have never been inside Foxconn, but I have seen many other factories. The workers are being treated quite well, the safety standards are quite high. Is it a high pressure environment? Of course, we are talking about assembly lines. The questionable standards of human rights in China are in the political arena, not in the work place (when working for international companies). In the work place things have changed, the workers even have legal regress (and most cases are being decided in favor of the workers these days).

I have been in China for the last 25 years and know what I am talking about. I doubt you have much first hand experience in factories there. The businesses depend on having workers to run, these days it is more a question of workers 'abusing' companies -- like demanding 30% wage hikes, etc. -- than the other way around.

Last edited by HansTWN; 02-16-2012 at 03:30 AM.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:15 AM   #68
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They threatened suicide over being transferred to another facility. They wanted to work there.

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Thanks. I wasn't able to find a confirmation that the abandoned pipelines were the cause of the incident. Was the matter dropped?

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Why do I think it is more then one or two factories in China? Because this pattern of labor abuse has existed since before the industrial revolution. Because we heard similar stories coming out of every country/region of the world were manufacturing has moved. Because we heard similar stories coming from China regarding the garmant industry and it was a widespread problem there.
Foxconn doesn't have factories only in China:

Is the abuse the same everywhere?

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The first company is called Wintek. And if you want to be accurate, you should stop repeating that the workers died.
Yes, sorry for that. The chemical that was used causes degeneration of the nervous system, not death.
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