Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-26-2012, 02:57 AM   #61
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,559
Karma: 15397267
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
"Sorry Sir, but I couldn't do my homework because I accidentally deleted my textbook."

I can see it happening Besides, buying into a non-open, one-manufacturer solution with regard to education would not only be bad, it would be plain stupid. If you can't see why... Then I'm not even going to try and explain. (It has to do with power and influence, and the unseemly amount of it you'd be giving to said manufacturer.)

But, looking at Apple's ever rising profits since 2001, it seems many people are willing to give up openness and choices for a little more convenience. Actually... Many of the people I know that complained about Microsoft's monopolistic attitude in the 90's now buy Apple, and they *defend* those same attitudes. "But it's not the same, because Apple does not have that big of a market share." Yeah, right.

If Microsoft would try this, in whatever way, they'd be fined by more than one government. They're not even allowed to incorporate a media player in Windows in the Netherlands. (There has to be a separate Windows version without one.) Let alone they'd be allowed to try and setup a one-company solution to use educational material.

Last edited by Katsunami; 01-26-2012 at 03:08 AM.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 08:53 AM   #62
kartu
PRS+ author
kartu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kartu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kartu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kartu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kartu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kartu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kartu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kartu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kartu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kartu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kartu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,637
Karma: 2446233
Join Date: Dec 2007
Device: Sony PRS-300, 505, 600, 650, 950
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebase View Post
Destroy the public good? Without Apple, there would be no tablet market.
We don't know.

Quote:
Apple has placed a multi million dollar bet.
Doesn't sound as much money after Apple has spent about 100 million on sueing competitors around the globe with "rectangular shape with rounded corners" designs.

Quote:
Apple isn't evil for wanting a return on it's investment. Apple isn't evil for not giving away it's intellectual property to it's competition.
Not evil, right. Let's call it innovation. Apple is being innovative by claiming rights on the work created using their tools.
Trailing this "blazing innovation" Oracle has to claim rights on stuff created using Open Office and Microsoft should do the same with Microsoft Office. Not to give out their intellectual property to the competition.
kartu is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Advertisement
Old 01-26-2012, 08:55 AM   #63
leebase
Karma Kameleon
leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
leebase's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,528
Karma: 4088383
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: iPad, iPhone 4S
Apple didn't have to give away webkit....but they did. They didn't have to use open source, but they did.

And Apple participates and supports the open epub standard.

Apple does both open and proprietary products. Right now, the iBooks are proprietary. This is common. Even open source companies make sure they hold important elements back for themselves so they have a reason for folks to pay them.

And you are right, school systems are going to consider the proprietary format as a negative. All Apple's competitors need to do....is do better, or even "close enough". Apple has left that door open by their choice.

Amazon is doing better, far better, at selling novels. Interestingly...it's doing better and yet it's NOT supporting or participating in the open epub standard.

If a company can secure a leading advantage, they will go it alone. If they are an "also ran" trying to break into a market, they'll join up with others to be "open". Both are simply competitive tactics with no "goodness" associated with them. It is not good or bad inherently.

The market will decide.

Lee
leebase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 09:04 AM   #64
leebase
Karma Kameleon
leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
leebase's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,528
Karma: 4088383
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: iPad, iPhone 4S
BTW...there is already "vendor lock in" with text books. When a school system (or state) picks a text book. That's it. Parents can't go out and shop for the text book of their choice. Nor would we want them to.

Which of us has ever cared what tools those publishers choose to make their books? I bet you Adobe has a near monopoly position.

And what do you mean "we don't know" if there'd be a tablet market without Apple? 2 years ago there was no tablet market to speak of. Then Apple announces the iPad, and the folks decrying the iPad today were saying that "nobody needs a device between a computer and a smart phone". Oh...it's too expensive. Doesn't do anything. Doesn't have this or that port...yadda yadda.

Then when Apple succeeds in selling millions of iPads....NOW there's a tablet market and everyone and his brother is putting out tablets.

Lee
leebase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 10:53 AM   #65
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 26,320
Karma: 5382313
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
Apple did have to open source WebKit (the parts of it based on KHTML). WebKit was based on LGPLed code, which means if they made any changes to it, they had to open source them, or be in breach of its license. Contrast that with their kernel code which was also based on open source code, this time BSD licensed, which therefore did not have to be open sourced, and ended up not being open sourced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit#Origins

They did not have to use open source, true. they could have developed their own browser engine from scratch, but I claim they did so to save development costs, not to support open source. Feel free to claim otherwise.

And finally, I dont give a rats ass what Adobe or Microsoft or Amazon or Google or Facebook or whatever corporation you care to name did or will do. I dont condone anti-social actions simply because more than one entity does them. This thread was about Apple, but I can and do say the very same things about all these other companies.

I say that this move by Apple is bad for the ebook ecosystem, and for society that will depend on that ecosystem in the years to come. I have explained my reasons before. Those reasons stand, irrespective of whether 10 other compaines would do the same or whether "the market" approves of Apple. I choose not to outsource my ability to make moral judgements to "the market".
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 10:56 AM   #66
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,559
Karma: 15397267
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebase View Post
Apple didn't have to give away webkit....but they did.
They had to, as Khtml was already gpl2. It dictates that any derivative of a gpl2 work also becomes gpl2, with fully available source code. If I remember correctly.

Quote:
The market will decide.
In this case, with regarding to educational stuff, 'the market' will be mainly governments, and they are almost unanimously moving, or trying to move toward open standards and even open source to get out of all the lock-ins and regain independence of any company. Because of that, joining a new propietary standard at this point would be the stupidest thing to do.

With regard to the current textbook market: a government now deals with publishers X, Y, Z, and A. If one of them [expletive deleted by moderation] in some way, they move to another one. (And maybe changing books in the process, or nave not; textbooks often are to be had with several, at least in the Netherlands.) If they do everything through Apple and the iPad, then Apple is the only publisher. Imagine Apple [expletive deleted by moderation].... Bad situation, because the entire system will need to change *at once* if a government wishes to leave Apple. No government will take that risk.

In the end, open formats will always come out on top, because "everything with one vendor" is only convenient as long as you don't want to switch. As soon as you want to switch, it's a nuisance.

Edit: 50.000 Karma for Kovid, if I could. No way I could post that better.

Last edited by WT Sharpe; 01-26-2012 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Language. This is a family-friendly website.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 12:38 PM   #67
cjr72
Groupie
cjr72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cjr72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cjr72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cjr72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cjr72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cjr72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cjr72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cjr72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cjr72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cjr72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cjr72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 170
Karma: 2900000
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: A Yankee in Texas
Device: PRS-350
For what it's worth 'This Week in Tech' had an interesting back and forth with Ed Bott (the author of the zdnet article linked to in the original post) on this very subject:
http://twit.tv/show/this-week-in-tech/337
cjr72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 01:21 PM   #68
Sil_liS
Wizard
Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,894
Karma: 33602910
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
They are not saying that iBook format books are ePub compatible, they are not. They are saying that the iBooks application is ePub compatible, which it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
If you just want to create standard ePub2s with no extras (then why use this?), then there are reports that just renaming the file to .epub allows it to be opened in a Nook.
If renaming an iBook to .epub works how is iBook not epub compatible?
Sil_liS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 02:49 PM   #69
murraypaul
Interested Bystander
murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,224
Karma: 10210627
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Sony PRS505, Nook Color(CM7), iPad3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sil_liS View Post
If renaming an iBook to .epub works how is iBook not epub compatible?
If you restrict to using only some features, the book may open in some ePub readers. That doesn't mean that the book is valid ePub, only that the reader accepts it, and it certainly doesn't mean that a book using all features would be.
murraypaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 02:57 PM   #70
Sil_liS
Wizard
Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,894
Karma: 33602910
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
If you restrict to using only some features, the book may open in some ePub readers. That doesn't mean that the book is valid ePub, only that the reader accepts it, and it certainly doesn't mean that a book using all features would be.
Don't you have the same relation between .doc and .docx?
Sil_liS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 03:04 PM   #71
murraypaul
Interested Bystander
murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,224
Karma: 10210627
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Sony PRS505, Nook Color(CM7), iPad3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sil_liS View Post
Don't you have the same relation between .doc and .docx?
No idea.

Another example would be that most HTML viewers would probably accept and display a plain text file with no markup. That doesn't mean that the text file is HTML.
murraypaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 03:48 PM   #72
Sil_liS
Wizard
Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,894
Karma: 33602910
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
No idea.

Another example would be that most HTML viewers would probably accept and display a plain text file with no markup. That doesn't mean that the text file is HTML.
Your statement is about the viewer, not the format. If you change the name from .html to .txt can it still be opened?
Sil_liS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 04:00 PM   #73
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,559
Karma: 15397267
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sil_liS View Post
Your statement is about the viewer, not the format. If you change the name from .html to .txt can it still be opened?
Yes. A .html file is just flat text, so renaming to .txt will work and the file will be opened by any editor; even by a browser. Obviously, the browser won't show the html-markup anymore if you open the file as a txt file.

Any .html file is a valid .txt file, but not the other way around.

Last edited by Katsunami; 01-26-2012 at 04:02 PM.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 04:11 PM   #74
Sil_liS
Wizard
Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,894
Karma: 33602910
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
Yes. A .html file is just flat text, so renaming to .txt will work and the file will be opened by any editor; even by a browser. Obviously, the browser won't show the html-markup anymore if you open the file as a txt file.

Any .html file is a valid .txt file, but not the other way around.
So an ibook file is a valid .epub file, but not the other way around.
Sil_liS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 04:15 PM   #75
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,875
Karma: 42808895
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sil_liS View Post
So an ibook file is a valid .epub file, but not the other way around.
No, it's probably not a valid ePub file; it's just a file that an ePub viewer will do something vaguely sensible with. That certainly doesn't mean that it's a valid ePub.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Epub Apple issues and contacting apple dlanzarotta ePub 17 10-17-2011 10:14 PM
Classic New ZDnet review gigercounter Barnes & Noble NOOK 0 12-10-2009 03:02 AM
ZDNet Slams Amazon! Neil News 23 07-28-2009 06:12 PM
ZDNet quick preview TadW Sony Reader 6 12-19-2006 10:03 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:39 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.