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Old 01-24-2012, 06:14 AM   #16
tompe
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I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem.

This is free software for producing books specifically for the iBooks application. Apple are (very reasonably, to my mind) saying that if you choose to sell the resulting book, you must do so via the iBookstore. If you wish to give it away, you can freely do so. Similarly, if you export your file in another format, such as PDF, you can do whatever you wish with that.
But the exported version was still "work" and you could not sell it if you had submitted the book to iBooks.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:22 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem.

This is free software for producing books specifically for the iBooks application. Apple are (very reasonably, to my mind) saying that if you choose to sell the resulting book, you must do so via the iBookstore. If you wish to give it away, you can freely do so. Similarly, if you export your file in another format, such as PDF, you can do whatever you wish with that.

Really, what's all the fuss about?
This:

Quote:
The program allows you to export your work as plain text, with all formatting stripped. So you do have the option to take the formatting work you did in iBooks Author, throw it away, and start over. That is a devastating potential limitation for an author/publisher. Outputting as PDF would preserve the formatting, but again the license would appear to prohibit you from selling that work, because it was generated by iBooks Author.
it's idiotic. It is the same as Parker Pens (Apple) saying that a book written with one of their pens (iBooks) may only be sold in officially approved Parker stores (iStore), and that Parker (Apple) has the right to take the work out of print, or even reject it for release, if they so please.

Or, as a photographer, you would need to sell your wedding shoot through the Adobe store to the happy pair, and that Adobe can decide that you're not allowed to sell that shoot, for whatever reason... all because you used Photoshop to edit it.

Both examples sounds quite ridiculous, don't they? However, it's exactly what happens when you use iBooks to create your work.

There are not many companies I utterly detest, but Apple is one of them, and my hate just grew bigger. I thought that I reached the hate limit for them a long time ago, but I was wrong.

Last edited by Katsunami; 01-24-2012 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
it's idiotic. It is the same as Parker Pens (Apple) saying that a book written with one of their pens (iBooks) may only be sold in officially approved Parker stores (iStore), and that Parker (Apple) has the right to take the work out of print, or even reject it for release, if they so please.
But Apple make this perfectly clear, and the software is free. Nobody is forcing you to use iBooks Author. Given that the tool is specifically designed for creating interactive textbooks, etc, which will ONLY work in iBooks, I'm afraid I must, with the greatest respect, disagree with you.

A better analogy would be if Parker pens had a bookstore and they said "we will GIVE you a nice pen, free of charge, with the proviso that what you write with it you'll sell in our bookstore". Personally I have absolutely no problem with that. Apple are giving you a free tool - they want something from you in return. It's not a free lunch.

Last edited by HarryT; 01-24-2012 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:00 AM   #19
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So, you spend a year to create an iPad book. Then you wish to publish it, and Apple says: "No, thanks. Bye." The eula states that you cannot sell the book through one of the 500 publishers that do want to sell it. The only thing you can do is spend another year to recreate it in another program. Or worse: Apple decides that your books all get wiped out of the store for whatever reason *they* feel is OK, possibly bankrupting your company. They specifically state that they're not responsible. You think that's fine?

To me, trying to lure people into these kinds of eula's is worse than any standard they try to mangle.

Last edited by Katsunami; 01-24-2012 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:39 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Have Apple ever said that iBook files were ePub compatible?
Not just the new iBook2 format, but ever?
"The iBooks app for iPad (a free download from the App Store) includes a built in iBookstore with access to thousands of books you can download and begin reading immediately. And because the iBooks app uses ePub, the most popular open book format in the world..."

It does sound like to me that's what they are saying.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:17 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem.

This is free software for producing books specifically for the iBooks application. Apple are (very reasonably, to my mind) saying that if you choose to sell the resulting book, you must do so via the iBookstore. If you wish to give it away, you can freely do so.

Really, what's all the fuss about?
Let's imagine Adobe & Microsoft creating their own book stores, distributing publishing software for free, but only with exclusive rights to sell the books on their own store, charging 30% on each book. Still don't see a problem?

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Similarly, if you export your file in another format, such as PDF, you can do whatever you wish with that.
Nope. If you used mentioned software to create it, you have to sell it exclusively via apple's store.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:21 AM   #22
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So, you spend a year to create an iPad book. Then you wish to publish it, and Apple says: "No, thanks. Bye." The eula states that you cannot sell the book through one of the 500 publishers that do want to sell it. The only thing you can do is spend another year to recreate it in another program. Or worse: Apple decides that your books all get wiped out of the store for whatever reason *they* feel is OK, possibly bankrupting your company. They specifically state that they're not responsible. You think that's fine?
Which is all exactly the same as if you had made that book as an iOS app instead.
What iBook Author is doing is provide an easier way to create media-heavy books than creating a custom app each time. For 'normal' books there is no need to do either.
It isn't so much whether it is fine or not, but why all the fuss about something that hasn't really changed? Make it as an app, Apple control whether it can be sold or not. Make it as an iBook, Apple control whether it can be sold or not. It just takes less time to do it the second way.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:21 AM   #23
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Let's imagine Adobe & Microsoft creating their own book stores, distributing publishing software for free, but only with exclusive rights to sell the books on their own store, charging 30% on each book. Still don't see a problem?
If Microsoft had a Microsoft bookstore, using their own custom format, and providing a free tool that only produced that format, then no, I wouldn't have a problem.

The fact is, that if what you want to create is a normal ePub book which you COULD sell in another store, you'd be a fool to use iBooks Author, because it doesn't produce ePubs. The ONLY reason to use this tool is if you want to produce an enhanced eBook which will ONLY work in iBooks.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:24 AM   #24
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"The iBooks app for iPad (a free download from the App Store) includes a built in iBookstore with access to thousands of books you can download and begin reading immediately. And because the iBooks app uses ePub, the most popular open book format in the world..."
The full sentence that you decided not to quote is:

"And because the iBooks app uses ePub, the most popular open book format in the world, you can also use it to read ePub books you get from other sources with your computer."

Makes it sound a bit different, doesn't it? Enough so that it seems rather disingenuous to cut it short the way you did.

They are not saying that iBook format books are ePub compatible, they are not. They are saying that the iBooks application is ePub compatible, which it is.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:43 AM   #25
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"And because the iBooks app uses ePub, the most popular open book format in the world, you can also use it to read ePub books you get from other sources with your computer."
So Apple, please explain. If you are so proud of the fact that the iBooks application supports EPUB, the most popular format in the world, then why does your own book creation application *NOT* support it (properly)?

That just does not seem logical. First you show everybody how proud you are to support the standard (and even be a prominent member of the committee), and then you create an application eminently suited to produce books in that standard, but omit the option to do just that.

Puzzled.

Oh, yeah. They've seen a way to possibly make *more* money.


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Which is all exactly the same as if you had made that book as an iOS app instead.
What iBook Author is doing is provide an easier way to create media-heavy books than creating a custom app each time. For 'normal' books there is no need to do either.
It isn't so much whether it is fine or not, but why all the fuss about something that hasn't really changed? Make it as an app, Apple control whether it can be sold or not. Make it as an iBook, Apple control whether it can be sold or not. It just takes less time to do it the second way.
Huge difference, IMHO. An app is software. There is no point to create an iOS app, and then sell it in the Android (or any other) market. It just does not work, it can't run on an Android device. You write an application for one operating system, or for another. It's a choice you can make.

A book however, is just a file format, with some information such as text and pictures inside. It needs another program to be useful, and other programs can be written for other operating systems, to be able to open such a file. Therefore, the book is not inherently tied to an operating sytem, but Apple wants to do that nonetheless.

In my view, with iBooks' EULA, Apple is hampering authors a great deal instead of helping them, if they decide to use iBooks. Instead of Apple giving the authors a fine tool with which they can also easily get into 15% the Apple marketshare, that tool, when used, gives them only the Apple market share, and denies them at least 52% (the Android share).

See this chart.

While the chart is for smartphones, I don't think that it'll be much different for tablets, in the end. I would know what I would choose, and it's not iBooks.

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Old 01-24-2012, 08:47 AM   #26
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So Apple, please explain. If you are so proud of the fact that the iBooks application supports EPUB, the most popular format in the world, then why does your own book creation application *NOT* support it (properly)?
Because this is specifically an application to produce multimedia content. ePub 2 (which iBooks already supports) doesn't support this, and it would be a mamoth task to write a fully ePub3 conformant reading app (there are none in existence). Don't think of this as a tool to produce "books" - it's really a replacement for book Apps, which are already iPad-only, and can be sold only through the iTunes AppStore.

This is really being blown up out of all proportion.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:54 AM   #27
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I must be having some kind of mid-life crisis. I find myself both agreeing with HarryT and not thinking Apple are the spawn of the devil over this. Two failures to get out of my pram in one day...too much...pass me the Quaaludes.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:01 AM   #28
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...an enhanced eBook which will ONLY work in iBooks.
When Microsoft tried to "enhance" Java, it ended up in court and that cost Microsoft about 1 billion $.

Embrace a standard that doesn't belong to you, create incompatible "enhanced" version of it, give it out for free / little money, then dominate the market is very old.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:18 AM   #29
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While the chart is for smartphones, I don't think that it'll be much different for tablets, in the end. I would know what I would choose, and it's not iBooks.
It's hugely different for tablets, for now at least.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:30 AM   #30
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Huge difference, IMHO. An app is software. There is no point to create an iOS app, and then sell it in the Android (or any other) market. It just does not work, it can't run on an Android device. You write an application for one operating system, or for another. It's a choice you can make.

A book however, is just a file format, with some information such as text and pictures inside. It needs another program to be useful, and other programs can be written for other operating systems, to be able to open such a file. Therefore, the book is not inherently tied to an operating sytem, but Apple wants to do that nonetheless.
The point of iBooks Author is to allow these media-rich books to be produced without having to write custom apps. That is why it exists.
If you want to write a normal book, there is no need to use this tool, just create it in ePub instead.
So for the people it is likely to benefit, they are no more constrained than they were beforehand.
I understand that there are lots of people who wish the tool was intended to do a lot more than that, but it isn't.
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