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View Poll Results: Would you encourage or discourage your friend from buying Onyx Boox M92?
I would encourage a friend to buy the device 23 62.16%
I don't know / I'm confused / I'd wait 6 16.22%
I would discourage a friend from buying the device 8 21.62%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-14-2012, 04:13 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Beryll Snyder View Post
Well, that's not a book. And as space is very limited on ereaders I don't know if that is such good idea - but wether or not the device is actually capable to do it, I don't know, but I don't think so.
I use to do that a lot on my PDFs on the desktop but not on ereder.
I can hardly to that with ezPDF reader on Adroind. I use the margins for some marking as the Android pen in not very fine ... I assume the pen tip is not very precise on M92 either so you might use the margin for marking instead of marking in the text block
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:56 PM   #17
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tuxor,

I probably read it one day earlier
It was "no longer in stock" then.

Beryll Snyder,

On a 9.7" screen left-right margins should be about 2 cm each, top-bottom - 3 cm each.
Although top-bottom is not as important.

With such margins you get the size of the text itself exactly like in a regular printed on paper book.
Furthermore, if margins are narrow, then on 9.7" screen the line of text is too long for comfortable reading: you have to follow the line along with the eyes and then to search for the beginning of the next line.
Long lines are not good. In the printed book business they know what line length is the best and they try to stick close to it.

So, with narrow margins, on 9.7" you would have to increase the font size to get shorter lines, but then you would have to read from a much greater distance - hands are too short for that.

I do not use 9.7" reader for pdfs with technical documentation: for that I have a PC.
I just want to have an experience of reading a real book, and therefore I need the size of the text on the page of a real book too. A 6" screen is not enough.

BTW, for pdf a different reader software may be invoked (as on PB902), and it may have different margin settings.
But work has to be done on a PC. Especially that 9.7" is too small for comfortably reading A4 size pdfs anyway.

An additional advantage of such wide margins is that you can use black reader instead of a white one.
With narrow margins, black frame very close to the text is bad for eyes, so only a white reader can be used - the plastic frame serves as an extension of the page, an additional margin. 6" or 5" reader always has to be white or light gray.
So, with wide margins you can buy a black reader and on a black reader the screen looks whiter which is very pleasant.

The rule is very simple:
9.7" reader - black reader, wide margins.
6" reader - white reader, narrow margins.
5" reader - buy a larger reader

I also like to have large top-bottom margins just to make the page be of the same size as in books. It contributes to the experience of reading "a real book".
A longer page is not too bad, less turning of pages.

Obviously, the best would be 8" reader. Where are way?


And finally, before I hacked my PB902 and installed FBReader180 on it,
I was not able to set wide margins. So I tortured myself with the narrow ones.
I can categorically say, that wide margins increase the pleasure and comfort of reading many many times. Like night and day.
If you are still using narrow margins, you don't know what you are missing!
(That applies only to 9.7" devices. On 6" there is no room for large margins, the text line is already a bit too short)

Booxtor,

As I explained above, I want wide margins and a black reader
So I will have to wait for the black one.
But meanwhile perhaps you can confirm if it is possible to set such wide margins with the current reader software? I don't want to buy a reader and then try to find a way to hack it to increase the size of the margins.

It is easy to do it on Kindle DX, but for left and right margins only, no top - bottom.
On PocketBook 902, it became possible only with FBReader180, not even with Cool Reader 3.

BTW, Pearl is darker than the old VizPlex (I have both), personally, I strongly prefer older eink screens.
So that makes it even more important to get a black reader, to get at least some psychological effect of a whiter screen.

Maybe I should investigate older versions of Onyx. I just like dimensions of M92.

Last edited by parkher; 02-15-2012 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:11 PM   #18
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An additional advantage of such wide margins is that you can use black reader instead of a white one.
With narrow margins, black frame very close to the text is bad for eyes, so only a white reader can be used - the plastic frame serves as an extension of the page, an additional margin. 6" or 5" reader always has to be white or light gray.
So, with wide margins you can buy a black reader and on a black reader the screen looks whiter which is very pleasant.



I am surprised to see that it is bad to have black margins with eink and text close to the margins (bad for your eyes) while reading PDFs is on PC. Like that is not bad for the eyes. Why the heck am I trying to get away from reading on monitors then? It must be something wrong with my eyes.

I believe each one of us has his own sensibilities and intolerance to reading on different devices.
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:14 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by PF4Mobile View Post
I use to do that a lot on my PDFs on the desktop but not on ereder.
I can hardly to that with ezPDF reader on Adroind. I use the margins for some marking as the Android pen in not very fine ... I assume the pen tip is not very precise on M92 either so you might use the margin for marking instead of marking in the text block

but you can zoom in, write want you want and then zoom out. the text you wrote "shrinks" with the book/document text when you zoom out
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:17 PM   #20
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I liked that one


... and please note, that this theorem remained unproven until the 1990s ... and it was really long and hard - definitely not the proof, that Fermat was talking about.
because fermat was making a joke- the page is only 2d
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:55 AM   #21
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PF4Mobile,

I don't tell you to read PDFs on PC.
I don't read PDFs, I convert them to something suitable for reading.

Of course I don't think that reading on PC is good for anything.
Avoid reading on PC as much as possible. Certainly not books.
But if reading pdf is job-related and you have to work on your PC anyway...
Usually I have a pdf open on one monitor while something else on another and it is not convenient to involve also a reader at the same time.
Besides, work related PDFs are usually A4. And A4 on 9.7" screen is not easy to read.
If you read it fitted to the screen all at once - it is even worse for your eyes.
To zoom, reflow, scroll around? If you have no life.

If it is not job-related, you should not read PDFs at all! Ever!
Unless they are specifically generated for your reader and according to your preferences

In conclusion, I don't consider PDFs suitable for e-readers and do not acknowledge their existence

One exception:
Sheet music. I use a 9.7" reader sometimes for it. But it is a very specific task, not so hard on eyes.

Oh, one other thing. I wrote earlier that 6" reader must be white. Not to be a racist, I want to step back somewhat from that statement:
Of course, you can read in landscape mode. Then you can set margins 1 cm on both sides and have a proper 10 cm text line. With such wide margins a black reader could be acceptable.

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Old 02-16-2012, 04:00 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkher View Post
PF4Mobile,

I don't tell you to read PDFs on PC.
I don't read PDFs, I convert them to something suitable for reading.

Of course I don't think that reading on PC is good for anything.
Avoid reading on PC as much as possible. Certainly not books.
But if reading pdf is job-related and you have to work on your PC anyway...
Usually I have a pdf open on one monitor while something else on another and it is not convenient to involve also a reader at the same time.
Besides, work related PDFs are usually A4. And A4 on 9.7" screen is not easy to read.
In conclusion, I don't consider PDFs suitable for e-readers and do not acknowledge their existence
I need to drop my 2 cents

I agree with you that whenever its possible to convert a given "book" into a format other than pdf (while preserving the layout), its probably easier to just read.
However, especially considering technical books / papers / scripts I am very fond of my M92 (as a 9.7" device). Using the hide margin functionality the text is only scaled slightly down, like 10-20% (if at all).
Personally, I find that very readable, especially given (well we're here in the Onyx forum) that you have the embolden glyph functionality, which comes in very handy: If you need the text to be just a bit more bold you can adjust it accordingly. I use it for some scripts of lectures in A4 with smaller margins than normal: around 1.5-2cm.

Since I am a grad student (computer science, math) and also work in this field, I basically read papers / books around 10-30 hours per week. Considering the ~100 pdfs / djvus I've skimmed through or read until now on my M92, I've only had problems with badly scanned documents. Personally (!) I prefer reading on the smaller 9.7" display in comparison to my 24" tft with a resolution of 1920x1200 at home, even though I can pivot it (allows reading of 4 pages letter format still comfortably) and I've 2 other similar tfts, reading on eInk is just better: Even though its smaller and offers not such a high resolution, I can read at a much closer distance without any eye strain.

Please note that I am only talking about reading, i.e. basically reading a paper from the beginning to the end, skimming through the book and using scribble (now with new 1.7 very good!) to mark some interesting paragraphs / literature etc. I would never use it to make a lot of annotations, writing texts with the virtual keyboard

2 other points are the mobility and the general ergonomics of such a device.
Considering the mobility: I highly favor the idea of working, i.e. reading , outside if possible instead of sitting in my office / home all day.. And I really tried reading on my laptop using the public transport systems, but it just doesn't work out.
Additionally I very much like the idea of holding something in my hands compared to sitting (in a constrained position) all day starring at a fixed monitor. Just the possibility of moving around a bit in your chair, standing for some time, generally changing positions more often relaxes reading quite a lot.

However, I again want to stress that this is my very personal feeling about it.
People interested in buying a 9.7" or the M92 specifically should really try it out for themselves to select the device best fitting their needs.
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Old 02-16-2012, 05:43 AM   #23
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MatthiasR,

As you already have M92, perhaps you know or could test if it is possible to set wide margins, about 2 -2.5 cm each, so that the width of actual text is 9-10 cm or even less.
This is important to me for reading non-pdf books, such as epubs, fb2 and all the rest.
I need to know it before I buy M92.
I may be too sensitive to this issue, but this is because I was shocked after buyng PB902 to find out that it was impossible on PB902! I was able to do it finally, but only after hacking it and installing FBReader180.



Anyway, I really would like a 8" device, not another heavy 9.7".
I do not understand why they are not available (or are they?).
The screen size of 8" would be exactly the same as a paperback page.
It is the most natural thing in the world to manufacture 8" readers.

And to reduce the dimensions of the device, how about making the frame around the screen just 2.5 mm or so wide? Instead, the reader does not have to be 9 mm thick. It could be 2.5 cm (an inch) thick like a real book to accommodate that small footprint.

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Old 02-16-2012, 05:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by parkher View Post
PF4Mobile,



If it is not job-related, you should not read PDFs at all! Ever!
Unless they are specifically generated for your reader and according to your preferences

In conclusion, I don't consider PDFs suitable for e-readers and do not acknowledge their existence
Well, well, there are plenty of textbooks out there that want to be read also - by everyone.
As for your conclusion, it works the other way around: the ereaders are not suitable for pdfs.
Why is it not a problem on tablets?
In my opinion this is all about software - and why the development in this respect is happening so slowly never ceases to puzzle me ...
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Old 02-16-2012, 05:53 AM   #25
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MatthiasR,

As you already have M92, perhaps you know or could test if it is possible to set wide margins (about 2 cm each) for reading non-pdf books, such as epubs, fb2 and others.
This is the most important to me and I need to know it before I buy M92.
I just checked with one epub (1984, the only epub i have) and the available readers for epub: fb, pdf and cool.
And you cannot set margins at all. The minimal distance between text and the frame is ~3mm. I am currently again running the 1.62 firmware so I am not sure whether they implemented it in the new (rc) version.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:09 AM   #26
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So here you are, I have to investigate the possibilities of hacking it, otherwise it is not for me.

Actually, if FBReader and Cool Reader can be used on M92, there is a chance that it can be done. But it may be a bit deeper hidden. It can be done in more ways than one, for example in "Default paragraph formatting".
But it is true that I found this way only with FBReader180 on PB.
However, on T1 I was able to set any margins with Cool Reader.
For example, I am using 1.5 cm margins in landscape mode, even though it is only 6".
And I was able to set them in two different ways.
So Cool Reader is not exactly the same on various devices.

Last edited by parkher; 02-16-2012 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:19 AM   #27
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I just checked with one epub (1984, the only epub i have) and the available readers for epub: fb, pdf and cool.
And you cannot set margins at all. The minimal distance between text and the frame is ~3mm. I am currently again running the 1.62 firmware so I am not sure whether they implemented it in the new (rc) version.
This is actually not exactly true

If you open your book (EPUB or FB2) with the Cool Reader you can set in advanced menu the margins very easily (Firmware 1.7)
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:24 AM   #28
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Booxtor,

Does it go as far as 2-2.5 cm one margin?

I see that on Sony PRS-T1 I can do it with CoolReader either directly (globally) or in "Default paragraph formatting" (for left-right only, not for top-bottom) or in combination of both.

But on PB902 CoolReader did not have the range wide enough for such large margins, the high enough values could not be entered and were changed to smaller ones if entered from PC. Perhaps it is changed now. It would be very easy to fix it in Cool Reader.

I am using FBReader180 on PB and now I tried to check with Cool Reader and it crashed.
After the initial disappointing checks I never used Cool Reader again, and it is possible that some other fine-tuning caused problems with it, or just its cache has to be cleared.
Anyway, I don't need Cool Reader on PB. FBReader180 is perfect for my needs.

Last edited by parkher; 02-16-2012 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:31 AM   #29
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Booxtor,

Does it go as far as 2-2.5 cm one margin?
I see that on Sony PRS-T1 I can do it with CoolReader either directly or in "Default paragraph formatting" or in combination of both.

But on PB902 the CoolReader did not have a range wide enough for such large margins, the high enough values could not be entered. Perhaps it is changed now. It would be very easy to fix in Cool Reader.
Yes, no problem. I've just tried the maximal range is about 3 cm. Looks a little bit unusual for me, though..


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Old 02-16-2012, 06:37 AM   #30
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This is actually not exactly true

If you open your book (EPUB or FB2) with the Cool Reader you can set in advanced menu the margins very easily (Firmware 1.7)
Thanks for the correction. Great that they implemented it. Hope that they'll fix the pdf hyperlink problem in the final 1.7 version, so I can use it
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