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Old 11-19-2007, 03:02 PM   #16
DaleDe
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Originally Posted by NatCh View Post
I'm afraid I can't agree with that notion.

Unlike PDF and e-books, MP3 actually is suited to music. PDF is designed expressly for the purpose of preserving the page layout, that specific design point is totally contrary to e-books where the screen size is necessarily variable. But that's just my opinion, of course.
I believe your opinion is shared by anyone that has actually tried to use PDF on 6" devices. It is a technical reality that it does not work well if at all. Reflowing PDF can solve some of the problems but none of the dedicated readers currently support reflow.

At this point the eBook equivalent of mp3 is ... MobiPocket. There are lots of readers available on lots of platforms and the content can be made for free. Kindle can read these books.

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Old 11-19-2007, 03:12 PM   #17
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We are not dealing with a small outfit here...this is Amazon we are talking about. They give you ebooks and they store them for you on their server. Now, let's assume you buy the Kindle V2 next year, then I'm pretty sure that you'll be able to use your old books again. Amazon would make sure of that.
We already know that Amazon will abandon e-book readers, since they have done it before. They sold Adobe secure e-books and stored them on their server, but they deleted them all from their site one year after dropping the format. I agree that if they make a Kindle V2 they may well allow your content to be moved over, but suppose they decide to discontinue the Kindle line. Then what?
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:13 PM   #18
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Oh and btw: Zune has failed.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:15 PM   #19
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Hmm...the Kindle seems to be the same physical size as the Cybook, but a little wider. With all the real estate taken up by the keyboard, the screen must be smaller. That could be one of the reasons why no PDF support. This is the e-book reader for Joe & Sue Sixpack, who are intimidated by the idea of syncing a device with a computer, and Amazon probably anticipated a lot of complaints about PDFs being difficult to read.

Not making excuses here, just thinking out loud. Or in print. :-)

I wonder how long it will take for converters to hit the 'net. Though I still think the thinner, lighter, larger-screened Cybook is a winner right now. Oh well, I don't get my holiday bonus for a few more weeks so I have some time to read the early reviews and decide between the Kindle and the Cybook.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
At this point the eBook equivalent of mp3 is ... MobiPocket. There are lots of readers available on lots of platforms and the content can be made for free. Kindle can read these books.
I'd say that a good case can be made that mobi is the closest e-book equivalent to what MP3 is for music, but I'm sure that a case could be made in the other direction too.

Over here there's a reference to the Kindle Manual saying that it won't take DRMed mobi files from other vendors. It remains to be seen if it really can't, or if they've just made it complicated.

Seeing as how a goodly percentage of those who already use mobi (e-books in general, for that matter) wouldn't bat an eyelash at the prospect of finding a way around a barrier if it's not really impossible to do, I'd say that there's a goodly possibility that this may change in the near future. Already ideas to get around it are flying about, but until somebody tries a few of them, we won't know for sure.

Of course, that will require access to the hardware, since it only went on sale this morning, I'd give it perhaps a week before we have some idea of whether it's a "real" barrier or just a "we want you to think it's a real barrier" barrier.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:19 PM   #21
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And for those hoping for a drm-circumvention: In Germany it is actually illegal to bypass *any kind* of copyright-protection. Whatever senseless it may be - so at least here this would not be a solution.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
We already know that Amazon will abandon e-book readers, since they have done it before. They sold Adobe secure e-books and stored them on their server, but they deleted them all from their site one year after dropping the format. I agree that if they make a Kindle V2 they may well allow your content to be moved over, but suppose they decide to discontinue the Kindle line. Then what?
I think comparison with the Adobe eBooks is a little "misguided". Yes they were "Electronic Books", but I don't know that they were ever intended for use on anything other than a computer. I'd be more likely to believe that it was the fault of Adobe more than Amazon. Amazon likley didn't have a whole lot of say in the matter. Adobe likely realized that a PC only book is not really a viable long term solution. From what I can see, they've basically said We've got the format...YOU make it work. Sony decided to try it, but failed miserably IMO.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
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I'd say that a good case can be made that mobi is the closest e-book equivalent to what MP3 is for music, but I'm sure that a case could be made in the other direction too.
Perhaps the real problem is that there *isn't* an ebook equivalent of MP3. So far, PDF, TXT, and mobi have been proposed, but none of those are nearly as universal as MP3, and they each have their own problems. PDF preserves all formatting, but can't reflow for different devices. TXT is the opposite - it is flexible and can be displayed on anything, but loses almost all formatting information. (Not to mention images). Mobi is proprietary and closed. (Which, to be fair, MP3 is to a degree).

I think the MP3 of ebooks will arise the same place the MP3 format did - on the back alleys of the Internet, where the most convenient ebook format will be converted and shared, driving people to purchase a reader that supports it.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:25 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by tirsales View Post
And for those hoping for a drm-circumvention: In Germany it is actually illegal to bypass *any kind* of copyright-protection. Whatever senseless it may be - so at least here this would not be a solution.
The approaches discussed so far aren't DRM circumvention, really -- more ways of capturing the information necessary to get files from other stores properly registered so that the DRM works with the device.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I'd say that a good case can be made that mobi is the closest e-book equivalent to what MP3 is for music, but I'm sure that a case could be made in the other direction too.

Over here there's a reference to the Kindle Manual saying that it won't take DRMed mobi files from other vendors. It remains to be seen if it really can't, or if they've just made it complicated.
I wasn't talking about DRM'd books. Mobi format is both a DRM and a non-DRM format. Only the non-drm is equivalent of mp3. PDF is not an eBook format and was never designed to be one.

Quote:
Seeing as how a goodly percentage of those who already use mobi (e-books in general, for that matter) wouldn't bat an eyelash at the prospect of finding a way around a barrier if it's not really impossible to do, I'd say that there's a goodly possibility that this may change in the near future. Already ideas to get around it are flying about, but until somebody tries a few of them, we won't know for sure.

Of course, that will require access to the hardware, since it only went on sale this morning, I'd give it perhaps a week before we have some idea of whether it's a "real" barrier or just a "we want you to think it's a real barrier" barrier.
Amazon has made it quite clear that they do not support DRM from MobiPocket. Like every other eBook reader on the planet they only support one DRM format.

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Old 11-19-2007, 03:32 PM   #26
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Re: the apple/ipod/itunes metaphore: In addition to buying songs on iTunes, one is able to rip CDs from his existing collection (leaving aside stealing music for the moment.) Wouldn’t the equivalent for ebooks be the ability to get all the pbooks in your library into your Kindle or Sony reader? Instead one has to purchase them again (except books in the public domain.) Feels more like having to repurchase a movie on DVD you once owned on VHS, and may buy again on HD-DVD.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:35 PM   #27
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I wasn't talking about DRM'd books. Mobi format is both a DRM and a non-DRM format.
Quite right, sorry, I read more in than you wrote.

Quote:
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Amazon has made it quite clear that they do not support DRM from MobiPocket. Like every other eBook reader on the planet they only support one DRM format.
Yes, that's what they said, but ....

Then we find out that .AZW format is apparently just mobi with a different extension, which suggests that if a DRMed mobi file could be registered to a Kindle's PID (assuming it has one) and its extension changed to .AZW, the poor Kindle might not know it wasn't an "official" Amazon e-book.

Amazon owns MobiPocket, so it's not all that great a leap to wonder if they aren't really using the same format (as they apparently are) and the same DRM, regardless of what they say on the matter -- you know how Marketing guys can be. The befuddling thing to me is why they'd want to even appear to burn that particular bridge (let alone really do so) in the first place.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:41 PM   #28
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And for those hoping for a drm-circumvention: In Germany it is actually illegal to bypass *any kind* of copyright-protection.
yes, that is why germans still listen to CDs and cassettes and do not ever watch video on their PCs.

i know people who have an MP3 collection that even bill gates could not afford to buy with iTunes. p2p, limewire, shareza, torrentreactor etc.

i say let the kindle launch with a huge bang, let it be available in 500 countries, let it be announced in the news for 3 months without end ... and let this event be the "coming out" for the ebook.
i am sick and tired of people complaining that ebooks are "not real books", i am sick and tired of the same old "i need the smell of paper" and "books are for snuggling up in front of the fireplace, you can't do that with ebooks" phrases. i want the world to see that literature is not dependent on a specific type of medium.

the drm of the kindle will be hacked before it is even out, and it'll be converted to all kinds of things and made to run linux within a few months.
it'll have a gameboy emulator, send emails and surf the web real soon.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:41 PM   #29
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I already own an iLiad, but would consider the Kindle for the additional content and instant wireless. However, I own 40 Mobipocket-DRM books. Not having access to them makes the Kindle a complete no-go for me. It's a shame, since I love Amazon. I'm an Amazon Prime member and buy a lot of stuff from their site.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:46 PM   #30
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The EV-DO might wind up being a liability

One of the common uses people bring up for ebook readers is to bring reading material along on travel, particularly on plane flights.

But with the EVDO on this device, would they allow you to use it on a plane?

Just a random thought...
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