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Old 12-21-2011, 02:52 PM   #1
Julien Pham
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Page numbers

So, I have asked this in another forum, but then I put this here, because now it is a Sigil question.

I have noticed some ePub, for instance those in Kobo ePub format I buy on Kobo store, on my Kobo display a page number according to the font size and the chapter.

For instance I could have Chapter 3 - Page 12 out of 120 as the page number. If I change the font size then the page number changes.

But in other ePub I have, the page number is fixed. I mean, it is a overall page number for the book, like just "Page 12 out of 420". If I double the font size I still have "Page xxx out of 420" whereas I should have "out of 840" about...

So is there a way to edit the ePub file, with Sigil as we are in Sigil forum, to change the Page numbering behavior of my eBook? I would like the page count to be relative to the real text on my Kobo, not according to a strange thing I do not understand.

Another exemple I could have "Page 12 out of 420", I turn a page I still have "Page 12 out of 420" and I turn another page and now I have "Page 12 out of 420". If I select a big font size I'll have to turn 5, 6, 7 pages to have the page number increased by one

Thanks
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:07 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julien Pham View Post
So, I have asked this in another forum, but then I put this here, because now it is a Sigil question.

I have noticed some ePub, for instance those in Kobo ePub format I buy on Kobo store, on my Kobo display a page number according to the font size and the chapter.

For instance I could have Chapter 3 - Page 12 out of 120 as the page number. If I change the font size then the page number changes.

But in other ePub I have, the page number is fixed. I mean, it is a overall page number for the book, like just "Page 12 out of 420". If I double the font size I still have "Page xxx out of 420" whereas I should have "out of 840" about...

So is there a way to edit the ePub file, with Sigil as we are in Sigil forum, to change the Page numbering behavior of my eBook? I would like the page count to be relative to the real text on my Kobo, not according to a strange thing I do not understand.

Another exemple I could have "Page 12 out of 420", I turn a page I still have "Page 12 out of 420" and I turn another page and now I have "Page 12 out of 420". If I select a big font size I'll have to turn 5, 6, 7 pages to have the page number increased by one

Thanks
No
A page is NOT a screen full
A page in ADE is about 1000 characters
So depending on the characters per screen, Where in the current page block, the number may or may not change on a screen flip.
IMHO only percentage is a decent estimate. ESTIMATE because styling (large, italics...) all throw off the estimate.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:26 PM   #3
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As for the different behavior for different epubs... are you sure some of the Kobo books aren't in the kepub format??

Epub is epub... and there's nothing in the physical ebook files you can do to change the page numbering "behavior" of your reader. That's a function of ADE or the Reader itself.

Kobo's kepub format is whole 'nother ball o' wax. It has extra stuff that has nothing to do with the ePub standard. I suspect that's the reason for any differences you're seeing in page numbering behavior on your Kobo: kepub vs epub.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 12-21-2011 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:50 PM   #4
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Ok I think this is the reason, because what I buy on Kobo store is on the kepub format. I guess it is a proprietary format we cannot edit, right?

And I guess there's no way to create kepub books, or convert epub to kepub

I hope one day ePub will evolve, because a page number system where a page is a given number of character is really useless

I should blame ADE then ^^
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julien Pham View Post
Ok I think this is the reason, because what I buy on Kobo store is on the kepub format. I guess it is a proprietary format we cannot edit, right?

And I guess there's no way to create kepub books, or convert epub to kepub

I hope one day ePub will evolve, because a page number system where a page is a given number of character is really useless

I should blame ADE then ^^
Page numbers are obsolete.
If you need to link to a specific part of the book, you place an anchor on the page.
The link jumps to the anchor.
Percentage, lets you know your progress.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julien Pham View Post
I hope one day ePub will evolve, because a page number system where a page is a given number of character is really useless
In my opinion... a page numbering scheme being part of a reading system where the term "page" no longer means anything is pretty silly to begin with.
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:01 PM   #7
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But then we should be able to know our % relative to the chapter or end of book easily. With my Kobo I can know my % only relative to the whole book, and only when I put my Kobo in standby mode.

You say page numbers are obsolete, but I do not agree. Even on a reader you turn pages, so to me page numbers are still useful. For instance when I'm a bit tired and I want to go to bed, or if I have something to do, I like being able to know I just have 3 more pages to the end of the chapter, so I continue to read until the end of the chapter.

Pages numbers are obsolete if you read a webpage and you scroll to the end of what you read. But as long as you turn pages to read, which you still do with eReader, pages numbers are there... and if they are there... perhaps it is better to have them handled the good way instead of the weird one
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julien Pham View Post
Ok I think this is the reason, because what I buy on Kobo store is on the kepub format. I guess it is a proprietary format we cannot edit, right?

And I guess there's no way to create kepub books, or convert epub to kepub

I hope one day ePub will evolve, because a page number system where a page is a given number of character is really useless

I should blame ADE then ^^
When you read a k-ePub format of the book, it does not actually use the ADE engine on your Kobo, rather, it uses an alternate engine that displays page #'s differently from the ADE engine.

You should be aware that you can go to the Kobo Books website, logon with your Kobo ID and password, and then head to the My Library link. This will list all the books in your library, and should also provide you with a link along side each book to download the ePub version of your material, as opposed to the k-ePub format that got downloaded either via Kobo Desktop OR the device directly.

This will actually download an ACSM file, which when opened by ADE on your computer download the DRM'ed ePub. This ePub can be synced via either ADE or calibre. Due to DRM being present, many of the other calibre functions will not work though.
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:51 PM   #9
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If you've only got one device, say, a Kobo Touch, and you have set it up to always use one set of formatting options (i.e. font size, margins, etc) and only plan on reading on that, then I can understand why you feel a single page should be represented by the text on one screen only as it will never be different.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people - myself included - that will read a book on multiple different devices. I myself use a Sony T1, Samsung Galaxy Tab, HTC Desire HD and an Acer Aspire 1825PT laptop as my main reading devices, I don't carry them all with me, but I generally will have one of them around to do my reading on. They all have different screen sizes and resolutions, so there is no way I could use a numbering screen as you can because they will almost never be able to represent the same page for a given page number.

The ADE method of page numbering means that I can always find my page when changing devices because I know that ADE sets a page to be a 1000 characters. Therefore screen size or resolution is irrelavent.
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:23 PM   #10
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And so I guess you write down on a piece of paper the page number you're in?
As for myself have just an iPhone and a Kobo Touch, but now I have the Kobo I do not read on the iPhone anymore, screen too small ^^

Last time I have to find back where I was in my reading, I just remembered the chapter and a word and I did a search on my Kobo and I found the page I was at this way.

This also means you have to sync your library on all those devices, to be sure to have the book with you when you need so, right?

Perhaps a way to choose the display we want could be helpful then, so people who prefer to know where they are in the chapter can, and when you need an absolute page number you can. Currently the only way I have to know how many pages I need to finish the chapter (useful when I'm going to bed, usually I would like to know if I'm far from chapter end or not) is to go to the chapter list, go to next chapter, look at page number, then come back where I was. Not very convenient.
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:32 PM   #11
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And so I guess you write down on a piece of paper the page number you're in?
I read more than one book at a time (in progress).
ADE remembers where I am to the closest (lower) ADE 'page' number when I exit the book and returns to that point when I open it again on the same device (no sync). I have to do nothing, only exit normally (Not crash/hard reset) to update the stored Last Read point.
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:40 PM   #12
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Yes but you said you read on multiple device, and this is why you need absolute page numbers. But then you have to remember the page

In fact ghostyjack said that, not you
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Old 12-24-2011, 06:32 PM   #13
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And so I guess you write down on a piece of paper the page number you're in?
As for myself have just an iPhone and a Kobo Touch, but now I have the Kobo I do not read on the iPhone anymore, screen too small ^^

Last time I have to find back where I was in my reading, I just remembered the chapter and a word and I did a search on my Kobo and I found the page I was at this way.

This also means you have to sync your library on all those devices, to be sure to have the book with you when you need so, right?

Perhaps a way to choose the display we want could be helpful then, so people who prefer to know where they are in the chapter can, and when you need an absolute page number you can. Currently the only way I have to know how many pages I need to finish the chapter (useful when I'm going to bed, usually I would like to know if I'm far from chapter end or not) is to go to the chapter list, go to next chapter, look at page number, then come back where I was. Not very convenient.
No, I do not write it on a piece of paper, remembering a single number is not difficult to do. If I'm reading more than one book at a time (on more than one device), I record the page numbers in Evernote (cloud note syncing service) against the book title and they are now available on all my devices. Your method of remembering a chapter and a word and then doing a search seems longer and open to miss-hits with search as I don't see how you can guarantee the word you choose is the only one in the chapter.

If though I'm only using one device at that time to read a book and am not likely to switch to another device, them as theducks said, there is no need to remember anything as ADE will do all the remembering.

Putting my books on my devices is easy to do with services like Dropbox and Sugarsync, it's not a problem. Being an avid reader, it's handy having my books available to me.

The main problem with page numbering is that no matter what is chosen as the method, it will not please everyone. Having multiple different methods in the same reading system so as to try and cover all possible options is likely to be pretty complex and will in all likelihood slow it down, and I doubt many of the developers will wish to spend the time doing it.
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Old 12-24-2011, 08:16 PM   #14
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In fact I always have my kobo on me. My kobo is in my inner coat pocket and I always have it on me.

I have no iPad or something similar, and an iPad is harder to carry around than a reader. And now that I have my kobo I cannot read on my iPhone anymore
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