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Old 12-16-2011, 03:55 PM   #31
carld
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Originally Posted by EowynCarter View Post
You probably never looked at the code, or know much in html and css. Most of time, i spot calibre conversion because of the weirdo code before i see trace of "calibre" in the css or opf file.
It's insulting to presume what someone else knows or doesn't know. Also, I can see that the converted files display just fine with no oddities or strangeness.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:09 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by carld View Post
It's insulting to presume what someone else knows or doesn't know. Also, I can see that the converted files display just fine with no oddities or strangeness.
Well, anyone with some knowledge in html en css would agree with I say.
Yes, it will mostly look good, but the code is not good.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:29 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by EowynCarter View Post
Well, anyone with some knowledge in html en css would agree with I say.
Yes, it will mostly look good, but the code is not good.
Presumptions aside, I see now that we're talking about two different things. I've never looked at the actual code Calibre produces because the books look just fine, so I've never needed to..
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:41 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by TheSFReader View Post
Don't know about Sony and B&N, but Kobo does allow non-DRMed books, and show explicitely the DRM Status :

http://www.kobobooks.com/ebook/Gobli...KHg/page1.html
I stand corrected then. This is a welcome development!
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:43 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer View Post
Well, I suppose the problem might be that what you describe may be illegal (breaking digital locks) in the poster's country of residence. I personally am not bothered by it, but I can see someone not feeling great about doing it either.
People like that need to break free of the shackles imprisoning their minds.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:43 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carld
Presumptions aside, I see now that we're talking about two different things. I've never looked at the actual code Calibre produces because the books look just fine, so I've never needed to..
I've only ever been concerned with the behind the scenes CSS/XHTML when it's an ebook that I'm currently creating... and want to keep an easy to modify copy around for updating/template/version control purposes. In that case, I do want the code "just so," and likely won't let calibre run rough shod over it.

But if it's a book I'm just reading for my own enjoyment (not editing, creating or proofing), then I fully embrace the "If it renders the text fine, I really don't care what the code behind it looks like" mentality.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 12-16-2011 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:05 PM   #37
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Hmm, forgive me i am just an idiot Englisman, but what is the problem with DRMs? are they not there to serve the writer's interests? in which case, what is wrong with that? and as H says above they can be got round by the sound of things. As an author, I wld accord amazon a AAA rating for devising a wonderful revolutionary too for tearing down old publishing. But creative work should be paid for should it not? A person who buys a pbook can't give it free so a million people as somone online cld. So surely the little author who wants to make a cent as I do needs some bar on his or her work being simply taken as free to anyone who pays a dollar for it. If an author wants free exposure they simply don't opt for DRM. I salute Amazon for allowing DRM. What is the case against it?
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:07 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Given the ridiculous ease of removing DRM from Kindle books I have to ask - who the hell cares whether or not the books come with DRM?
This.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:08 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by ProfCrash View Post
Amazon does not require DRM. It is there if publishers want to use it and most do.

BN, Sony, and Kobo all sell books with DRM. This is just another silly Anti-Amazon rant that means little to nothing. Amazon is following the same practice as every other e-book store out there.

(yawn)
Yes, BN, Sony and Kobo , like Amazon, all sell some books with DRM, but unlike them, on Amazon's three latest stores, ther's no indication of whether a book has DRMs. This disminishes french, Italian, and Spanish reader's ability to choose to not buy DMRized books, hence angrying me.

Additionally, they lie to publishers and push them to use DRMs, rather than beeing neutral as they claimed to be.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:09 PM   #40
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I salute Amazon for allowing DRM. What is the case against it?
It comes at too steep a price. It restricts the consumer in ways that don't have anything to do with protecting the author's interests.

And Amazon isn't "allowing" anything. The publisher (whether that's an agency or an individual) determines whether the book has DRM.

Quote:
Given the ridiculous ease of removing DRM from Kindle books I have to ask - who the hell cares whether or not the books come with DRM?
You do all realize that the status quo on this can go tits up in a heartbeat though, right? We've been quite lucky in that regard for so long that I believe we've become a bit spoiled and complacent. Those who do remove DRM should still care whether or not it exists in the first place.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 12-16-2011 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:23 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by R J Askew View Post
Hmm, forgive me i am just an idiot Englishman, but what is the problem with DRM? are they not there to serve the writer's interests? in which case, what is wrong with that? and as H says above they can be got round by the sound of things. As an author, I would accord amazon a AAA rating for devising a wonderful revolutionary too for tearing down old publishing. But creative work should be paid for should it not? A person who buys a pBook can't give it free so a million people as someone online could. So surely the little author who wants to make a cent as I do needs some bar on his or her work being simply taken as free to anyone who pays a dollar for it. If an author wants free exposure they simply don't opt for DRM. I salute Amazon for allowing DRM. What is the case against it?
First off, you have to give thanks to Sony who came out with the very first eink reader called the Libre in Japan. Then Sony came out with the PRS-500 in the USA. Both before the K1.

As for DRM, people who are sharing eBooks on the net either know where to get them without DRM or know how to strip the DRM so it's no problem for them. For people who buy eBooks, DRM can be an issue. Let's say you have a Kindle and you've bought 20 eBooks from Amazon. You've read 5 of these eBooks. Now you decide you want a Sony Reader and you've given your Kindle to someone else or sold it. Now you have these 15 unread and 5 read eBooks attached to your Amazon account. But you want to read them using your Sony. But wait, they have DRM. They won't work with your Sony. They won't work with anything but a Kindle or a Kindle app. But you don't want that because you want them in ePub. Now your choices are to buy them in ePub and pay again for them or strip the DRM and convert to ePub.

See, the DRM just bit you in the ass and yes, it left welts.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:14 PM   #42
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I believe one of the concerns the OP has is that there is no consistent and reliable way Amazon uses to notify customers of an ebook's DRM status.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:25 PM   #43
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I believe one of the concerns the OP has is that there is no consistent and reliable way Amazon uses to notify customers of an ebook's DRM status.
Absolutely.

The discovery that this lack of a reliable marker was intentional and beeing generalized was the tipping point which decided me.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:52 PM   #44
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I believe one of the concerns the OP has is that there is no consistent and reliable way Amazon uses to notify customers of an ebook's DRM status.
Quote:
Absolutely.

The discovery that this lack of a reliable marker was intentional and beeing generalized was the tipping point which decided me.
And all the other major players DO clearly and consistently indicate which ebooks contain DRM and which do not?

It seems to me that by your own logic, you should be done with ALL the major retailers of ebooks then, right?
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:09 PM   #45
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First off, you have to give thanks to Sony who came out with the very first eink reader called the Libre in Japan. Then Sony came out with the PRS-500 in the USA. Both before the K1.

As for DRM, people who are sharing eBooks on the net either know where to get them without DRM or know how to strip the DRM so it's no problem for them. For people who buy eBooks, DRM can be an issue. Let's say you have a Kindle and you've bought 20 eBooks from Amazon. You've read 5 of these eBooks. Now you decide you want a Sony Reader and you've given your Kindle to someone else or sold it. Now you have these 15 unread and 5 read eBooks attached to your Amazon account. But you want to read them using your Sony. But wait, they have DRM. They won't work with your Sony. They won't work with anything but a Kindle or a Kindle app. But you don't want that because you want them in ePub. Now your choices are to buy them in ePub and pay again for them or strip the DRM and convert to ePub.

See, the DRM just bit you in the ass and yes, it left welts.
So I bought the original Star Wars trilogy on VHS back in the 90's. I really want to use them on my Blu-Ray player and have all the features of the Blu-Ray version, but I can't.

I also bought the DVD versions that have both the original version of the movies and the updated version. I really want the original theatrical versions on Blu-Ray and have all of the quality and features of the Blu-Ray version but I can't do that.

Hmm, I think this means that Lucas & Fox suck and are in a conspiracy to keep taking my money by evolving with technology.


BTW I also really want my paperback copy of The Stand to morph into a signed galley copy, do you think you could assist with this?


Also I expect no charge for any of these changes, because I'm an entitled brat who thinks I should be able to purchase something once and have it work on everything forever.
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