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Old 12-16-2011, 01:26 PM   #16
uavalos
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Ah ok ok, "readers can set margin auto to 0." Missed that.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:42 PM   #17
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Still...it's seems like poor planning and design

What's in the previous comments is all true, which also proves the point that there is a problem. The "standard" is supposed to avoid exactly these problems and not leave things up to individual 'interpretation' of the meaning.
My experience in producing ePub books is the same as the originator of this thread. Perhaps the "standard" should not say that an auto setting can be interpreted as zero if, in common use, the auto setting is used to automatically balance both sides in the browser. There is no standard if you tell developers they can interpret a "standard" any way they want. I would expect that any good developer/designer would consider that the standard way for a CSS tag to function is how it's handled by most browsers and how most html/css developers today intend it to display (since it's html/xhtml at it's core). That's the real "standard" and the surest way to interpret what is desirable and most useful, whether it's a browser or renderer using the same standards.

I've found plenty to be disappointed with, so far, with ADE, color Nooks, and iPads, in how they seem to arbitrarily handle CSS tags. The Nook doesn't align text (as in Chapter names) no matter what I've tried. Pictures -might- center, text is a @%&! pain. Try doing an ordered list with the 'OL' tag...doesn't work at all and varies with the reader app. Nook only shows the first digit (1-9), fbReader replaces numbers with bullets..arggg. I had to redo the whole thing as text, and the Nook doesn't display text colors that I selected, I had to redo chapter names as .png images to have any choice in the matter.
Now Apple is 'extending' their ePub handling to have purely Apple-centric capabilites, which means they are breaking the 'standard' for their own ends. Fine of you only want a book to be read on an iPad...otherwise, you'll have to make a second version for other readers (do I hear 'buy another ISBN number too?). So we have to dumb-down our CSS and other options to the lowest common denominator.

We're all trying hard to design good ePub books, but Apple, Adobe, and others who make programs and ePub renders should hire better programmers and designers who know what it's like to try to design a nice presentable ePub book and fight with their "interpretation of the standard" to get it done. My suggestion is to interpret and render CSS stylesheets exactly as a page is displayed in every common browser (Chrome, Firefox, IE?). Better yet, have the book displayed as Calibre displays it, and give us some of the forward/back buttons like Calibre does. That one guy can make a program that works very well and, imho, beats ADE all to...er..pieces. (disclaimer: I am not affiliated with any of these companies or persons at all.)
-JT
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:46 PM   #18
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And this is a Sigil problem, how?
Sigil allows us to work around the mess these others have created.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:10 PM   #19
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Besides, the problem isn't really the programmers just coming up with their own specs (with the exception of iBooks)... the problem is that the official ePub specs are way too lenient and allow for too much interpretation. Until that changes, epub book designers will continue to have to jump though hoops in order to accommodate as many reading devices as they can.

And I agree with theducks. It's not a Sigil issue.
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:06 AM   #20
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I agree, the IDPF should have worded the specifications in such a way that there are no multiple interpretations possible. Then, as a next step, don't allow readers to claim that they can read ePUB when they only read what they want. Create some sample reference tests which readers must pass.
This is most definitively not a Sigil issue.
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:36 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jttraverse View Post
What's in the previous comments is all true, which also proves the point that there is a problem. The "standard" is supposed to avoid exactly these problems and not leave things up to individual 'interpretation' of the meaning.
My experience in producing ePub books is the same as the originator of this thread. Perhaps the "standard" should not say that an auto setting can be interpreted as zero if, in common use, the auto setting is used to automatically balance both sides in the browser. There is no standard if you tell developers they can interpret a "standard" any way they want. I would expect that any good developer/designer would consider that the standard way for a CSS tag to function is how it's handled by most browsers and how most html/css developers today intend it to display (since it's html/xhtml at it's core). That's the real "standard" and the surest way to interpret what is desirable and most useful, whether it's a browser or renderer using the same standards.

I've found plenty to be disappointed with, so far, with ADE, color Nooks, and iPads, in how they seem to arbitrarily handle CSS tags. The Nook doesn't align text (as in Chapter names) no matter what I've tried. Pictures -might- center, text is a @%&! pain. Try doing an ordered list with the 'OL' tag...doesn't work at all and varies with the reader app. Nook only shows the first digit (1-9), fbReader replaces numbers with bullets..arggg. I had to redo the whole thing as text, and the Nook doesn't display text colors that I selected, I had to redo chapter names as .png images to have any choice in the matter.
Now Apple is 'extending' their ePub handling to have purely Apple-centric capabilites, which means they are breaking the 'standard' for their own ends. Fine of you only want a book to be read on an iPad...otherwise, you'll have to make a second version for other readers (do I hear 'buy another ISBN number too?). So we have to dumb-down our CSS and other options to the lowest common denominator.

We're all trying hard to design good ePub books, but Apple, Adobe, and others who make programs and ePub renders should hire better programmers and designers who know what it's like to try to design a nice presentable ePub book and fight with their "interpretation of the standard" to get it done. My suggestion is to interpret and render CSS stylesheets exactly as a page is displayed in every common browser (Chrome, Firefox, IE?). Better yet, have the book displayed as Calibre displays it, and give us some of the forward/back buttons like Calibre does. That one guy can make a program that works very well and, imho, beats ADE all to...er..pieces. (disclaimer: I am not affiliated with any of these companies or persons at all.)
-JT
We align chapter headers in Nook all the time. What on earth did you try that didn't work?

P.S.--I don't disagree with a great deal of what you're saying, and have oft-ranted here myself on the same topic. However, I don't understand the problem you're having with Nook, which in general, formats fairly easily?

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Old 07-14-2012, 11:47 AM   #22
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Cool Centering objects in Adobe Digital Editions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxaris View Post
Yes. That is the only way.
Thanks, this helps with several problems!

Quote: The first 90% of a project takes 10% of the time, the last 10% of the project takes 90% of the time.
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