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Old 12-02-2011, 08:58 PM   #1
Jack Tingle
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First Look at a Kindle Touch

Short Version: Yuck! I'll keep my K3, TYVM.

Longer Version: I picked up the test model at BJ's and pushed the only two buttons on the thing. Page turning is 2 handed, which is dumb, since the K3 is single-hand usable. I couldn't figure out how to get to various functions, since there's no 'menu' button, etc. It read OK, just like my K3, once I resigned myself to 2-handed operation, but I think it's a step backwards in reader interface. Sometimes touchscreens aren't the device of choice. (And I have a boatload of touchscreen PDA, so I'm not anti-touchscreen.)

Conclusion:
No Sale. YMMV

12/16/2011: I noticed that BJ's had replaced the KT I had looked at. The 'touch the top of the screen for menu' function now works. It appears that they had a defective unit. I still don't like it particularly well for the other reasons, but that specific criticism above doesn't apply.--JT

Last edited by Jack Tingle; 12-16-2011 at 11:39 AM. Reason: New Facts
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tingle View Post
... Page turning is 2 handed, which is dumb, since the K3 is single-hand usable...
Wrong.

It's as if people who own the K3 really have no intention of wanting to look favorably upon the Touch. Just want to be able to say, "Yeah, I tried it, total fail on Amazon's part".

There's nothing to fear Kindle Keyboard lovers. Amazon simple chose to finally cater to those who don't want the keyboard, and never will. Nothing wrong with that. Because someone can't figure out how to navigate the device they turn sour.

Last edited by SCION; 12-02-2011 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
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There's nothing to fear Kindle Keyboard lovers.
I'm gonna go with FDR and say that we have nothing to fear except fear itself. However, Amazon does seem to be phasing out the keyboard models. And it's not clear to me whether black and white electronic ink is ever going to be much better than what we have in the K3. eInk Corp. may simply be unable to make the contrast much better than they have with Pearl. And Amazon's strategy, pretty clearly, with both general merchandise and hand held devices, is to start with readers but then move on to larger markets. So I'm trying to treat my K3 gently enough so it lasts a good long time.

Five years from now, it's quite possible that a used K3 in good condition will sell for more than a new one does today. It will be mildly interesting to see which type of eReader holds its value better.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:00 PM   #4
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"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tingle View Post
Short Version: Yuck! I'll keep my K3, TYVM.

Longer Version: I picked up the test model at BJ's and pushed the only two buttons on the thing. Page turning is 2 handed, which is dumb, since the K3 is single-hand usable. I couldn't figure out how to get to various functions, since there's no 'menu' button, etc. It read OK, just like my K3, once I resigned myself to 2-handed operation, but I think it's a step backwards in reader interface. Sometimes touchscreens aren't the device of choice. (And I have a boatload of touchscreen PDA, so I'm not anti-touchscreen.)

Conclusion:
No Sale. YMMV
This is a good example of why one shouldn't judge any device without knowing how it works first, and maybe spend just liiiiitle bit time with it before writing a "review" or "first look".

I believe the very first page you see after you boot up the device is the following?


your problem is solved.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:16 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by SCION View Post
Wrong.

It's as if people who own the K3 really have no intention of wanting to look favorably upon the Touch. Just want to be able to say, "Yeah, I tried it, total fail on Amazon's part".

There's nothing to fear Kindle Keyboard lovers. Amazon simple chose to finally cater to those who don't want the keyboard, and never will. Nothing wrong with that. Because someone can't figure out how to navigate the device they turn sour.
Lets not generalize KK owners I got rid of 2 and got the KT and I like it much better. True the interface could be more exciting, but its small and light and has
a superior keyboard. Very nice upgrade imo.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:14 PM   #7
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Lets not generalize KK owners ...
You're right. Pardon me.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:33 PM   #8
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Two-handed? The lightest poke by one of my fingers turns the page. I love the Kindle Touch. And I still love my K3.
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Old 12-03-2011, 12:16 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tingle View Post
Short Version: Yuck! I'll keep my K3, TYVM.
Amazon didn't include physical buttons, presumably to keep the price low. This is understandably a major turn off for many K3 owners.
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Old 12-03-2011, 03:08 AM   #10
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Amazon didn't include physical buttons, presumably to keep the price low. This is understandably a major turn off for many K3 owners.
A friend of mine won't buy a KT because it has no buttons. Someone please explain to me when you can simply touch the screen to get where you want, why are buttons necessary? I have never pushed a button other than home on my Sony's or my KT and just can't figure out this button-dependency
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Old 12-03-2011, 03:31 AM   #11
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Just use your thumb to turn the page. On the Kindle Fire it's a swipe which is silly but I use Mantano and it just like the Touch. You just give it a tap with you thumb. I prefer Touch Screens over buttons. Don't get me wrong I like my K4 but Touch screens are so much nicer.
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Old 12-03-2011, 05:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tingle View Post
Short Version: Yuck! I'll keep my K3, TYVM.

Longer Version: I picked up the test model at BJ's and pushed the only two buttons on the thing. Page turning is 2 handed, which is dumb, since the K3 is single-hand usable. I couldn't figure out how to get to various functions, since there's no 'menu' button, etc. It read OK, just like my K3, once I resigned myself to 2-handed operation, but I think it's a step backwards in reader interface. Sometimes touchscreens aren't the device of choice. (And I have a boatload of touchscreen PDA, so I'm not anti-touchscreen.)

Conclusion:
No Sale. YMMV
I am not sure how to use the device, therefore it is junk?

I find the Touch to be better at one-handed operation than any Kindle before it.
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Old 12-03-2011, 10:59 AM   #13
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I am not sure how to use the device, therefore it is junk?

I find the Touch to be better at one-handed operation than any Kindle before it.
Not quite. The interface is highly non-intuitive, while the K3 has a very obvious interface. There was almost no learning curve on the K3.

Because there is no obvious interface beyond the (Go Home) button, popping up a command window to, for example, turn on or off the wireless radio interrupted the flow of reading a lot. Looking at the Amazon website, it's possible the demo model I used was crippled (or defective*) in some way, since tapping the top of the screen didn't pop up the menus, it just highlighted the word I was near and activated the dictionary.

* 12/16/2011--It was. See original post edited.

And to respond to an earlier poster, yes, I did look at the instructions that popped up on the screen. I had no difficulty turning the page, I just wasn't able to do it one-handed in any comfortable, secure way. As I said, YMMV. The K3 allows forward page turning with a tiny (<1 mm) twitch of the thumb. It works in any orientation, with the K3 held securely. You simply can't do that with the touchscreen in any way that I was able to figure out.

Frankly, most modern, minimalist or Apple-esque devices are _harder_ to use than my jetBook, which has several comfortable, varied hand positions to allow long sessions of reading <http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58792&highlight=hand>. Some people hate the way it _looks_, but it works very well.

For me, the replacement for my K3 when it dies is probably the cheapo $79 version. I've never found much use for the keyboard that couldn't be done just as well by a Nintendo interface. The Kindle family's killer app is the Amazon integration combined with the Pearl screen. All else is just things Amazon didn't screw up on (which is vitally important to their success, but not a killer app.)

Regards,
Jack Tingle

Last edited by Jack Tingle; 12-16-2011 at 11:41 AM. Reason: New Facts
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Old 12-03-2011, 12:17 PM   #14
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With no exception, every proponent of the touch interface says that new users need to "give yourself some time with it," "you'll have to practice a bit" "it may take some getting used to."

That's all fine and dandy for some, but I'm not interested in learning new skills... only reading books (mostly). I know how to do that and I was doing it flawlessly with the previous Kindles within seconds of opening the box. One-handed with no practice, even.

If I thought for a second, that Amazon was going to continue selling the Kindle Keyboard indefinitely, I'd have no issue; you enjoy your touch-screen and I'll enjoy my buttons (physical keyboard) and everyone will be happy.

But we all know they won't do that. By the time I'm ready to upgrade my eInk Reader, there won't be a single model on the market that I can just pick up and start reading with. At the very least, I'll have to practice how to hold these tiny things comfortably—having completely removed all the meat from their bones.

So who's selling me my next device? It has to fit my hand naturally—with the physical "Next" button falling perfectly under my thumb when held in either the left OR the right hand (just like my current Kindle does). It can have a touch screen but if it does, it has to have the ability to perform every function with physical buttons as well. And I want a physical qwerty keyboard (including a numbers row) so I can quickly and easily take notes when proof-reading ebooks I'm working on. Right now, I can start jotting down a note by pressing a letter on the keyboard... bam!... the first letter in my note is typed. Can I have the first letter of a note typed on the KT with a single touch (a single touch from the normal reading screen)?

It's just like my local grocery store. They get a new salsa in I just absolutely LOVE. Then shortly after I get into a routine of picking up that yummy salsa when I'm shopping... they'll stop carrying it. Forever. And while it's nice that the stockboy's showing me another brand that he says is just as good... IT'S NOT MY FAVORITE SALSA AND I WANT MY SALSA BACK! My last jar's just about empty and I can't find anyone who's stocking anything similar to it.
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Old 12-03-2011, 01:07 PM   #15
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With no exception, every proponent of the touch interface says that new users need to "give yourself some time with it," "you'll have to practice a bit" "it may take some getting used to."

That's all fine and dandy for some, but I'm not interested in learning new skills... only reading books (mostly). I know how to do that and I was doing it flawlessly with the previous Kindles within seconds of opening the box. One-handed with no practice, even.

[snip future complaint]

So who's selling me my next device? It has to fit my hand naturally—with the physical "Next" button falling perfectly under my thumb when held in either the left OR the right hand (just like my current Kindle does). It can have a touch screen
[1]
but if it does, it has to have the ability to perform every function with physical buttons as well. And I want a physical qwerty keyboard (including a numbers row) so I can quickly and easily take notes when proof-reading ebooks I'm working on.
[snip salsa digression]
I was agreeable until you got to [1] above. A D-pad & 4 button Nintendo interface is probably enough for most kinds of devices, _especially when combined with a touch screen_. A K3 has a keyboard, a D-pad, and FOUR function buttons (Home, Back, Menu, and Screen Control) and 4 page turn buttons. You can easily change the keyboard for a touchscreen with no real loss of function.

Most PDAs had something similar and were very friendly. A touch-screen, properly integrated allows you to lose a _lot_ of buttons, just not all of them. A reading device should also (IMO) have several (Turn Page) buttons, because that's the vast bulk of all user commands, and you want a zero friction interface for that.

Regards,
Jack Tingle
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