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Old 12-05-2011, 12:36 PM   #76
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Quote:
One click on the Home button at the bottom of the Kindle.
The Kindle Touch has an "always visible" Home button?
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:52 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
The Kindle Touch has an "always visible" Home button?
If the closest you've ever got to a Touch is by looking at a picture, you may not have noticed(as I didn't before I received mine) that on the bottom of the kindle front surface, the 4 black lines is actually a button, not a speaker grill or sensor. It's the only button besides the power button on the Touch.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:23 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by techiegirl View Post
I swipe with the KF and with the KT, swiping will move me a couple of pages ahead.
It has just occurred to me while I was reading something on the Touch, you have a shaky hand/finger!! or do you?

There is a "hidden feature" on the Touch that allows you to turn every 2 pages to fast forward. If you double-tap on the screen, it'll turn two pages without the need to wait for screen refresh.

So excuse me if you don't have shaky hands but at least some might not know about this and find it useful.
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Old 12-05-2011, 02:58 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by shinew View Post
If the closest you've ever got to a Touch is by looking at a picture, you may not have noticed(as I didn't before I received mine) that on the bottom of the kindle front surface, the 4 black lines is actually a button, not a speaker grill or sensor. It's the only button besides the power button on the Touch.
Yeah, the home button (4 black lines) will always take you back to the main screen regardless of where you are...in a book, in the store, menu, etc.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:34 AM   #80
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I have a lot of experience with various UIs and various touch screen technologies for many purposes over many years, and I prefer my Kindle Keyboard to any e-reader currently out there.
There are many things I'd like a touch screen device for, reading isn't one of them.
The lack of page-turn buttons on the Kindle touch is a non-starter for me.
And since looking up and searching for words is integral to my reading experience, the physical keyboard is very useful. That it also lets me type email more easily than a virtual keyboard is a nice bonus.
The device I currently like next best, if I was going to get a second device, is probably the Nook STR. Although I'd prefer to not touch my reading display at all, the touch IS handy for navigation, web browsing or games (does the STR even do browsing or games?), and the well-positioned physical page-turn buttons are ideal. I really wish Amazon had gone that route with the KT.

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Old 12-06-2011, 09:47 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by ApK View Post
The lack of page-turn buttons on the Kindle touch is a non-starter for me.
Same here, for the reasons you've stated above.

Most of the Android eReader apps I've tried give an option of using the volume controls as page forward and back (including the Kindle app!).
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:31 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by abookreader View Post
No actually, fingerprints really weren't an issue an issue for me. Actually you hardly ever have to fully press down with a finger on the screen. It just takes a little bump or a tap, not really enough to leave a smear. As I said, my biggest issue was inadvertent page turns from when I'd hit the screen somewhere with my hands accidentally. It doesn't sound like a big deal but when you're reading and it keeps happening and keeps interrupting the flow of the book - it becomes an irritation.
Interesting how this varies from person to person. I was frustrated with this exact problem on my K3... couldn't find a comfortable way to hold it without accidentally pressing the page fwd/back buttons now and then. I had other issues like this too. The web browser was nearly useless with the cumbersome 5-way as the cursor/ navigation UI.

All these issues are resolved for me with the KT. I developed the habit/practice of holding the device on the bezel, keeping my fingers off the screen and out of the way of what I'm reading, so I don't have issues with accidentally causing page turns with unintentional touches to the screen. But now, I no longer have turns from accidental presses of the page buttons on the bezel 'cause there aren't any!!

In addition to this joy, there are other nice conveniences that the touch GUI makes possible -- like pinch gesture to change font size, double-tap to zoom in browser, swipe scrolling, and much more -- that make the KT a far better UI for me than the non-touch, kbd interface.

The only thing I have had to adapt to was getting used to the fact that the touch sensor tech used is an IR LED beam grid overlaid on the screen, the emitters/sensors contained around the inner edge of the bezel (this is why the screen inset has a deeper bezel than the non-touch models). This approach responds to anything that breaks the beams, so old habits like laying it face-down on my stomach/chest while lying down results in spurious touch commands sometimes. Minor issue, and I've already pretty much "reset" this habit.

A capacitive touch screen would have been better, but more expensive, and not worth the extra price IMO.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:20 PM   #83
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It's not simply a matter of intuitiveness, it's a matter of inefficiency. Features that used to work with the press of a button now require 3-5 times as many steps to reproduce with the Touch. IMO that's not an upgrade, that's a chore.
I'd agree if this were true. Rather, it simply appears that you aren't aware of the (necessarily) different shortcuts to accomplish the same operations on the KT.

For example: Bookmark a page by touching the top-right corner; pinch to change font size; etc.

All the shortcuts have not been discovered yet. Not by a long-shot. There will likely be some on the KK not replicated in some way on the KT, and other new ones only possible with a touch interface. In both cases, there will be people for which some shortcut is idispensible, and therefore the other device will be nothing more than a steaming pile bat guano for lacking it.

However, the KT is most certainly not lacking clever shortcuts to avoid 236 touches through 184 menus to increase the font size :-)

The true crime here is this game Amazon plays with its customers failing to fully document all features of the UI, on every reader, instead leaving it to to community to play Lewis & Clarke and "discover" them.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:48 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by ApK View Post
The device I currently like next best, if I was going to get a second device, is probably the Nook STR. Although I'd prefer to not touch my reading display at all, the touch IS handy for navigation, web browsing or games (does the STR even do browsing or games?), and the well-positioned physical page-turn buttons are ideal. I really wish Amazon had gone that route with the KT.

ApK
Nook STR does not do games, or web browser, unless you root it (which is possible). I find its physical page turn buttons less than 'ideal' (hard to find the sweet spot, and not so comfortable to maintain the grip needed for long reading sessions), and use screen taps or swipes at least as much. It is a solid reading device, but I prefer Kindle Touch in most respects.

And unlike Nook STR, Kindle Touch is certain to have a significant update in the future (to add KF8 support at least, and who knows what else).
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:08 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by tomsem View Post
Nook STR does not do games, or web browser, unless you root it (which is possible). I find its physical page turn buttons less than 'ideal' (hard to find the sweet spot, and not so comfortable to maintain the grip needed for long reading sessions), and use screen taps or swipes at least as much. It is a solid reading device, but I prefer Kindle Touch in most respects.
That's almost my exact impression when I tried the Nook STR for a week. It had 2 long rubberized ridges for page turning, but unlike the KK or K4 which have elongated button, the actual buttons on the Nook underneath the rubberized surface are right in the middle of the ridges. So in reality you really have a very narrow "sweet spot" to press it down comfortably. I also found it too stiff to use in comparison to the KK & K4NT. It doesn't tire my thumbs, but I had to make a conscious effort every time when I want to use them. So I ended up using the touch screen to turn pages anyway...
btw I'm a fan of physical page turning buttons in general, prefer it to touch screen(for page turning only).

Last edited by shinew; 12-06-2011 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:18 PM   #86
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I admit I only tried it for about 3 minutes, but the buttons felt really good for those three minutes. :-) Grip and balance was nice, too. My KK is a bit top heavy.
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:22 AM   #87
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I'm obssessive about a clean e-reader screen. I keep a small cloth nearby and brush off even a few specks of dust. I don't want my dust-busting to cause touch-screen responses. I really don't want fingerprints. I'll use my Kindle Keyboard until it breaks.
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:31 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by dwallersv View Post
I'd agree if this were true. Rather, it simply appears that you aren't aware of the (necessarily) different shortcuts to accomplish the same operations on the KT.

For example: Bookmark a page by touching the top-right corner; pinch to change font size; etc.

All the shortcuts have not been discovered yet. Not by a long-shot. There will likely be some on the KK not replicated in some way on the KT, and other new ones only possible with a touch interface
Unfortunately, it is true. I am well aware of the basic range of gestures which Amazon has given us with the Touch; the bookmark, the swipes, the screen capture, the double-tap and the pinch (which is jarringly sluggish for font changes)...and that's pretty much the gamut.

I highly doubt the Amazon developers have hidden a vast array of gestures; there's only so much you can do with a touchscreen, shy of playing Pictionary.

Now take, for example, the Back button; arguably one of the most basic functions of the Kindle. The back function now requires twice as many actions. Want to go back 3 screens? That's 6 taps (tap > back > tap > back > tap > back).

Want to play some background music? There's no shortcut; it's 5 taps to start.
Want to enable TTS? Two taps at least...and now you have to restart the MP3 player next time.
Want to change the volume when the display is in standby? Oh, you can't do that at all. *
Want to return to the article index of a periodical? Two taps.
Want to rotate the screen for PDF books? Oh, it can't do that either.

* This might seem like a non-issue, but it's a pain in the ass to dig into your bag on the bus (or standing in line, etc.), pull out the Kindle, open it up, turn it on, go to menu and adjust the volume. With the KK you can reach blindly into the bag and adjust easily with the cover closed.

I do agree however, that everyone has a feature set they consider indispensable, but I also think the KT has significant drawbacks with very little to gain; a touchscreen, X-Ray and a slightly smaller form factor just doesn't cut it for me.

Last edited by thayerwilliams; 12-07-2011 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:18 AM   #89
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Want to go back 3 screens? That's 6 taps (tap > back > tap > back > tap > back).
...
Those are terrible comparisons. If people were to compare them like that, one could argue that if you want to look up a word right in the middle of the page, say 15th line & 6th word, without the touch screen it'll take you 20 clicks, for the touch? 1 tap. So is the Touch 20 times faster?! This one single feature(and arguably one of the most used for some) will save you more "taps" and time than all the "extra taps" you've listed combined.

I don't think I really need to list every detailed comparison to prove my point. As I've wrote before, some take less step on the Touch to complete, and some may take few more. If you like the KK, great! but to say the Touch is mostly a step backward in comparison to its predecessor is ridiculous.

Last edited by shinew; 12-07-2011 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:17 AM   #90
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If the closest you've ever got to a Touch is by looking at a picture, you may not have noticed(as I didn't before I received mine) that on the bottom of the kindle front surface, the 4 black lines is actually a button, not a speaker grill or sensor. It's the only button besides the power button on the Touch.
LOL . I have to confess that when I got my Touch I assumed that it was indeed a speaker grill . I was touching everything in sight on the screen and thinking "where the heck is the "Home" button?".
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