Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Reading Recommendations > Book Clubs

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-20-2011, 01:12 AM   #1
WT Sharpe
Grand Muckity-Muck
WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
WT Sharpe's Avatar
 
Posts: 33,115
Karma: 99188000
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Device: Kindle Paperwhite, iPad Air, iPod Nano, & a PC running Windows 9.
Discussion: A Canticle For Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller (spoilers)

Let's discuss the November Book Club selection, A Canticle For Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller. What did you think?
WT Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2011, 10:40 PM   #2
bfisher
Guru
bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 743
Karma: 3036098
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: 45N 75W
Device: Sony PRS-T3, Galaxy (Aldiko, Kobo app)
I've never been in a book club discussion before, so I don't quite know how to proceed.

Anyways, here is my first bash at the book.

Miller believed in Time's cycle rather more than Time's arrow.

Miller believed that the Catholic Church kept civilization alive during the Dark Ages, and remains the civilizing agency.

I did enjoy how he tries to get inside the medieval mind. I especially enjoyed the bit about illuminating the schematic.
bfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 10:34 AM   #3
poohbear_nc
Feliz Fowlidad!
poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
poohbear_nc's Avatar
 
Posts: 30,146
Karma: 50924609
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Durham, NC
Device: Every Kindle Ever Made & To Be Made + Kobo Aura + Nexus7.2!
I've always been deeply impressed by Miller's ability to seamlessly juxtapose & meld the concepts of absolute faith with a world of absolute barbarity, and his use of "standard" religious metaphors in the most amazing situations.

For example:
priceless illuminated manuscripts (of schematics) vs cannibalism
virgin mutant birth of a second head
a stereotypical Jewish name associated with stereotypical Catholic monasteries
poohbear_nc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 04:53 PM   #4
Hamlet53
Under Fire
Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hamlet53's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,865
Karma: 46175969
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle PW, Kindle Fire HDX 8.9"
So my only contribution to this thread is probably to be questions concerning the character The pilgrim (part I)/Benjamin (Part II)/Lazarus(Part III). Who or what was he supposed to represent? When I read this a few months ago it seemed to be that this was the same man (apparition?) throughout the whole book. If a man he has a lifespan to put Methuselah to shame. It also seemed to me that unlike Liebowitz this character was definitely Jewish. Just why he was in the story was never that clear to me though.

Hamlet53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 05:27 PM   #5
WT Sharpe
Grand Muckity-Muck
WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
WT Sharpe's Avatar
 
Posts: 33,115
Karma: 99188000
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Device: Kindle Paperwhite, iPad Air, iPod Nano, & a PC running Windows 9.
He was the Wandering Jew, or at least one version of the Wandering Jew. According to legend, it was a shoemaker, I believe, who, when Jesus stumbled under the Cross, told him to get up and move away from his shop. Jesus told him that his own sufferings would soon be over, but that he would be cursed to walk the Earth until he returned.
WT Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 06:01 PM   #6
bill_mchale
Wizard
bill_mchale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bill_mchale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bill_mchale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bill_mchale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bill_mchale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bill_mchale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bill_mchale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bill_mchale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bill_mchale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bill_mchale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bill_mchale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,450
Karma: 1550000
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Device: Nook Simple Touch, HPC Evo 4G LTE
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
I've never been in a book club discussion before, so I don't quite know how to proceed.

Anyways, here is my first bash at the book.

Miller believed in Time's cycle rather more than Time's arrow.

Miller believed that the Catholic Church kept civilization alive during the Dark Ages, and remains the civilizing agency.

I did enjoy how he tries to get inside the medieval mind. I especially enjoyed the bit about illuminating the schematic.
I would point out that it is not a terribly controversial position to take that the Catholic Church was a major factor (indeed even the dominant factor) in keeping Western Civilization alive during the Dark Ages (i.e., between roughly 500-900). Indeed they are probably the reason that Plato and Aristotle are the philosophical foundations of Western thought as opposed to being viewed the same way we westerners might view Confusius.

--
Bill
bill_mchale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 06:48 PM   #7
Hamlet53
Under Fire
Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hamlet53's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,865
Karma: 46175969
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle PW, Kindle Fire HDX 8.9"
Quote:
Originally Posted by WT Sharpe View Post
He was the Wandering Jew, or at least one version of the Wandering Jew. According to legend, it was a shoemaker, I believe, who, when Jesus stumbled under the Cross, told him to get up and move away from his shop. Jesus told him that his own sufferings would soon be over, but that he would be cursed to walk the Earth until he returned.
Thanks WTSharpe. That is something I probably should have known (the legend). So in the story the reason the character basically is quietly dropped is Jesus never returns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_mchale View Post
I would point out that it is not a terribly controversial position to take that the Catholic Church was a major factor (indeed even the dominant factor) in keeping Western Civilization alive during the Dark Ages (i.e., between roughly 500-900). Indeed they are probably the reason that Plato and Aristotle are the philosophical foundations of Western thought as opposed to being viewed the same way we westerners might view Confusius.

--
Bill


That or Western civilization could have taken on a more Eastern foundation if Charles Martel had lost the Battle of Tours. First episode of a great program.

Civilisation: The Skin of Our Teeth - Kenneth Clark BBC TV 1969


Last edited by Hamlet53; 11-22-2011 at 06:52 PM.
Hamlet53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 11:14 PM   #8
bfisher
Guru
bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 743
Karma: 3036098
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: 45N 75W
Device: Sony PRS-T3, Galaxy (Aldiko, Kobo app)
One thing I did find very disconcerting about this book is that it really seems to be two separate works. About the first third of the novel, up to the death of Brother Francis, is imaginative and lively. After that point, it becomes a polemic about the inevitable ruin brought by secularism, and this theme is laid down heavily:

"On the fat kindling of past sins. And some of them are mine. Mine, Adam's, Herod's, Judas's, Hannegan's, mine. Everybody's. Always culminates in the colossus of the State, somehow, drawing about itself the mantle of godhood, being struck down by wrath of Heaven."

Now, this theme is also in the first part of the book, but after that, the art is lost but the diatribe remains.
bfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2011, 01:45 AM   #9
Kevin8or
Guru
Kevin8or ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kevin8or ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kevin8or ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kevin8or ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kevin8or ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kevin8or ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kevin8or ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kevin8or ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kevin8or ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kevin8or ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kevin8or ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Kevin8or's Avatar
 
Posts: 977
Karma: 43409226
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bay Area, CA
Device: Kindle 3
I'm having trouble, now, recalling my thoughts about the book. I enjoyed best the first third of the novel.

The novel's underlying question is whether humans are capable of advancing technologically without destroying themselves. Miller's answer seems to be 'no,' hence bfisher's "cycle" rather than "arrow". But Miller ends on a hopeful note, hinting that perhaps one of the spores of humanity will transcend self-destruction on one of its newfound homes.

If Miller were to write the story today, I wonder if he would revise the question to ask, instead, "Are humans capable of depriving themselves of wealth & pleasure, in their own lifetimes, for the sake of the long-term survival of the species?" Faced with global warming & overpopulation, self-destruction by war feels almost quaint.
Kevin8or is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2011, 10:13 AM   #10
Hamlet53
Under Fire
Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hamlet53's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,865
Karma: 46175969
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle PW, Kindle Fire HDX 8.9"
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
One thing I did find very disconcerting about this book is that it really seems to be two separate works. About the first third of the novel, up to the death of Brother Francis, is imaginative and lively. After that point, it becomes a polemic about the inevitable ruin brought by secularism, and this theme is laid down heavily:
It was written and first published in stages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz

I find it interesting that two people have commented that they enjoyed the first third of the book more. It was just the opposite for me. I know that it is bloody-minded, but I was pleased when that simpleton Brother Francis caught a crossbow quarrel through the head. It did surprise me that the story immediately jumped centuries further into the future.
Hamlet53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
book club, discussion, november

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter Miller Ransom Reading Recommendations 27 09-19-2011 05:15 AM
MobileRead Discussion: Hal Spacejock 01 (spoilers) pilotbob Book Clubs 51 05-08-2011 01:07 PM
author sort - Walter M. Miller, Jr. cybmole Calibre 18 12-03-2010 07:24 AM
A Canticle for Leibowitz on ebookmall seagull Deals, Freebies, and Resources (No Self-Promotion) 6 09-15-2010 08:38 PM
Brisingr/Inheritance discussion (spoilers) nekokami Reading Recommendations 6 01-15-2009 11:22 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:46 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.