Kobo Adobe Epub is a Kepub instead - Page 3

taming · 12-24-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nogle

All the books I have (Kobo and otherwise) work just fine, so I see no need to start checking into the state of the ePubs. I have been trying to underrstand what hte issue is, and as far as I can tell, there seems to be a very small number of ePubs that are broken. It seems to me that it is up to the user to report it to Kobo and for kobo to replace the faulty file; in some cases that will flow back to the publisher.

Yup, you've got it nogle.

PeterT · 12-24-2011, 04:22 PM

Also, remember that for true ePubs from Kobo, there is NO automatic re-downloading of them on new / updated versions being placed on the website, so if there is a book you HAVE had issues with, it would be well worthwhile re-downloading it to see if there have been changes.

Books in k-ePub format will be automatically re-downloaded by both Kobo Desktop AND any of the WiFi based units when they sync with Kobo.

ChristopherTD · 12-25-2011, 12:14 AM

Remember, for this to be visible, one has to be trying to read the book in a reader other than Kobo's reader. This would be a very small proportion of users (though a significantly higher proportion of MobileRead users).

Kobo have said they will refund the purchase, but they also said they have to get a replacement from the publisher, though the insertion of kobo.css surely happened after the publisher handed over the file. I don't think the intent is evil, rather one of insufficient testing on alternative readers - the books look weird in desktop Adobe Digital Editions even.

I have purchased over a hundred books from Kobo, preferring to support them as an alternative to Amazon. I don't particularly like their iOS reader, but I just use a different one. The overriding of publishers styling within the book, rather than with presentation tweaks in software, is what I am unhappy about. Insertion of Kobo's own stylesheets and JavaScript is not an accident, so while it remains a possibility I don't choose to buy there.

I re-purchased Master and Commander from Waterstones and the book is fine, no extraneous styling.

rashkae · 12-27-2011, 08:00 PM

Glad you got ack. from Kobo Christopher. There were some questions about what exactly the effect of all this is. The explanation I've given so far is a little technical, and with the smokestcreen from the chearleading section, it can be hard to communicate the implications without sounding like a raving lunatic. (insert if it quacks like a duck comment here.)

So here is a screenshot of the same book. Decide for yourself if the changes are annoying or inconsequential.

http://www.mediafire.com/i/?1x85e61lb26j6bl

The one on the left is purchaesd from Barnes and Noble. The one on the right is purchased from Kobo. Here you can see the changes that are wrought by the insertion of Kobo.css and kobo code throughout the text. (I call it Kobo code becaue it's conveniently labeled kobo, so I assume Kobo is the one doing it. We all know what can happen with assumptions, however.)

The changes that I have found are:

Larger text (the least bothersome, since all readers allow text size adjustment).

Doube spaced text.

Space between parapgraphs, which can make it more difficult to decipher when an actual scene break occurs, since several books use a space between paragraphs for those.

No paragraph indentation.

Complete removal of margin. This is more bothersome on actual reading devices, since the text will be flush against the bezel.

And the most recent observation, look at the second to last line on the Kobo version. Notice that only and one have no space between them. This has happened to all italized text in both books I've sampled. If there is italized text within a paragraph, space after italized text gets removed.

As for how many books are affected, 2 out of 2 new books I purchased from Kobo got this treatment. (Thirteen orphans and Saint's Astray.). Supposedly, not all books are affected. However, 2 out of 2 is enough for me to avoid buying any new books from Kobo until this issue gets acknowledged and addressed.

Of course, if none of this bothers you, then carry on and ignore the ranting lunatic.

Bookworm_Girl · 12-27-2011, 11:00 PM

Thank you so much, rashkae, pvs, and ChristopherTD! I just experienced this problem on a book I purchased today. Your posts pointed me in the proper direction to understand the issue with my book, which was the Kobo CSS and Javascript. I tend to agree with others that the book has been Koboized, and it is not the publisher's fault. If you are only reading on a Kobo, then you'll probably never know any different like those of us who buy Kobo Adobe EPUB's to read on non-Kobo ereaders. It's very interesting that Feedbooks has now written on this problem since Kobo has partnered with FNAC, a major retailer of French ebooks. That should get the issue more attention.

In my case, the font was super large and could not be modified smaller. Sorry but a dozen words on a page is just not readable for me! I have been purchasing books from Kobo since back when they were known as Shortcovers. Clearly, they have made changes recently. It appears to be only on books that have been published in the last few months. Very disappointing!

Kobo was a primary source of books for me, but now I will have to look elsewhere until they fix this problem. I'm also out $13 as I plan to re-purchase the book from another source since I really want this book as the publisher intended.

Anyway, search around on the internet or even in the other sub-forums on MobileRead like Sony and calibre, and you'll find other posts discussing this issue and how to fix it on your own if you don't want to repurchase the book.

PeterT · 12-27-2011, 11:30 PM

What would help immensely is if people shared the names of the books. Knowing that would also help us ask more intelligent questions of Kobo staff and try to learn what is going on and why!

If I ever feel bored enough, I will download my wife's collection of Kobo books in ePub format and see what I see. She has several hundred bought over the last two years.

rashkae · 12-27-2011, 11:33 PM

There's an irony here I just thought of that almost bring a tear of laughter to my eye. I remember when the Kobo first gen was relatively new, there was much wailing and grinding of teeth that some books would not adjust text size. As it turns out, back then, the Kobo could not resize text if the text size was specified in pixels rather than the more 'recomended' em. Now we come full circle. If you look at the kobo.css, what do they do? Specify a text size in pixels.

ChristopherTD · 12-28-2011, 12:02 AM

The book was Master and Commander by Patrick O'Brian. I suspect the formatting change was added to their workflow recently, so books already in the store to the store before that are untouched. I would be very surprised if the Kobo CSS/JS was added by the publisher, but that is what Customer Service told me and they also advised me that using the Kobo software was a workable solution. Which it isn't, for me at least, but the ticket is closed. They did give me a store credit, which I used on older book which was not formatted strangely, and purchased M&C from Waterstones with no formatting issues.

Bookworm_Girl · 12-28-2011, 12:27 AM

I bought 3 books today. I had issues with 2 books, which were both published in December 2011. The book published in 2010 did not have any problems. From this thread and other posting, it appears to be a variety of publishers.

Here is an example book that is currently on promotion as a free book (for the US at least). Check out Vince Flynn's Transfer of Power. It has this Kobo-ization issue.

rashkae · 12-28-2011, 12:42 AM

I still think this is Kobo doing, but there is another possability. Suppose that publishers might have some kind of software that automatically creates all the various ebook versions they need (like Smashwords' meatgrinter, and just as brain dead.). I could see something like that software recently having added a kobo profile, and overnight, all publishers who use the same software on the latest version are feeding Kobo files that are 'koboized.' I would even believe the possability that the output of this theoretical software is encrypted and DRM'ed from the go, and no one at the publisher or at Kobo is even able to crack them open to examine the contents of the file in question.

But considering the continued silence and ignoring of the issue going on, I'm more inclined to think this a policy issue, and not a technical one. Usually, when a technical issue crops up, Kobo devs (to their credit) are lightning fast at investigating and fixing.

frankieGom · 12-28-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rashkae

I still think this is Kobo doing, but there is another possability. Suppose that publishers might have some kind of software that automatically creates all the various ebook versions they need (like Smashwords' meatgrinter, and just as brain dead.). I could see something like that software recently having added a kobo profile, and overnight, all publishers who use the same software on the latest version are feeding Kobo files that are 'koboized.' I would even believe the possability that the output of this theoretical software is encrypted and DRM'ed from the go, and no one at the publisher or at Kobo is even able to crack them open to examine the contents of the file in question.

But considering the continued silence and ignoring of the issue going on, I'm more inclined to think this a policy issue, and not a technical one. Usually, when a technical issue crops up, Kobo devs (to their credit) are lightning fast at investigating and fixing.

While I have the problem on the last book I purchased from the store (french book, last week), I find it hard to believe that a company would do something so bold and stupid as to alienate the majority of it's customer base. This for what? To push sales of a device which is, no doubt, designed to help sell books through their store rather than make them money on its value alone (think razor blades or printer cartridges)?

I agree that something probably happened this month, and some change was implemented that went horribly wrong impacting books in a way not fully intended! I'll lodge a report with customer service and see what they have to say.

François

rashkae · 12-28-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankieGom

While I have the problem on the last book I purchased from the store (french book, last week), I find it hard to believe that a company would do something so bold and stupid as to alienate the majority of it's customer base. This for what? To push sales of a device which is, no doubt, designed to help sell books through their store rather than make them money on its value alone (think razor blades or printer cartridges)?

François

I agree that doing this as a means of pushing the Reader devices didn't make much sense. If this were a Kobo driven policy, I thought it was probably caused by customer confusion over getting 2 different books from Kobo. (Hey, if I buy a book from Kobo and sync by device, I get a different book than the one I get when I download from the web page..) At which point, someone had the brilliant idea to make all new books the same regardless of how you download it. As for what Kobo support has to say, something like "Get Kobo Desktop App and dowload/open the book there. Problem solved."

JSWolf · 12-28-2011, 02:00 PM

Read https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...65#post1899265 for a solution to the problem. It is not as difficult as you think to fix it.

But I do think reporting it even if you fix it is a good thing to do.

Bookworm_Girl · 12-28-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Read https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...65#post1899265 for a solution to the problem. It is not as difficult as you think to fix it.

Thanks, JSWolf, for sharing a solution! My complaint is that one shouldn't have to remove DRM and edit the files to get the book to work.

SameerH · 12-28-2011, 04:40 PM

Hi guys, sorry I haven't read through the entire thread, but wanted to assure everyone that there is no conspiracy

Adobe ePubs should not be using Kobo CSS as many of you have pointed out.

I'm not on the content development team but they are aware of the problem and are working to fix it and republish impacted books. Sorry for not replying earlier, things a bit busy as you can well imagine

I'll relay what information I can from the team as I get it. Hope that clears some things up.

12-27-2011, 08:00 PM	#34
rashkae Wizard Posts: 1,147 Karma: 5061953 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada Device: Kobo Aura HD	Glad you got ack. from Kobo Christopher. There were some questions about what exactly the effect of all this is. The explanation I've given so far is a little technical, and with the smokestcreen from the chearleading section, it can be hard to communicate the implications without sounding like a raving lunatic. (insert if it quacks like a duck comment here.) So here is a screenshot of the same book. Decide for yourself if the changes are annoying or inconsequential. http://www.mediafire.com/i/?1x85e61lb26j6bl The one on the left is purchaesd from Barnes and Noble. The one on the right is purchased from Kobo. Here you can see the changes that are wrought by the insertion of Kobo.css and kobo code throughout the text. (I call it Kobo code becaue it's conveniently labeled kobo, so I assume Kobo is the one doing it. We all know what can happen with assumptions, however.) The changes that I have found are: Larger text (the least bothersome, since all readers allow text size adjustment). Doube spaced text. Space between parapgraphs, which can make it more difficult to decipher when an actual scene break occurs, since several books use a space between paragraphs for those. No paragraph indentation. Complete removal of margin. This is more bothersome on actual reading devices, since the text will be flush against the bezel. And the most recent observation, look at the second to last line on the Kobo version. Notice that only and one have no space between them. This has happened to all italized text in both books I've sampled. If there is italized text within a paragraph, space after italized text gets removed. As for how many books are affected, 2 out of 2 new books I purchased from Kobo got this treatment. (Thirteen orphans and Saint's Astray.). Supposedly, not all books are affected. However, 2 out of 2 is enough for me to avoid buying any new books from Kobo until this issue gets acknowledged and addressed. Of course, if none of this bothers you, then carry on and ignore the ranting lunatic. Last edited by rashkae; 12-27-2011 at 08:03 PM.

12-27-2011, 11:30 PM	#36
PeterT Grand Sorcerer Posts: 12,172 Karma: 73448616 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Toronto Device: Nexus 7, Clara, Touch, Tolino EPOS	What would help immensely is if people shared the names of the books. Knowing that would also help us ask more intelligent questions of Kobo staff and try to learn what is going on and why! If I ever feel bored enough, I will download my wife's collection of Kobo books in ePub format and see what I see. She has several hundred bought over the last two years. Last edited by PeterT; 12-27-2011 at 11:33 PM.

12-28-2011, 02:00 PM	#43
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 74,037 Karma: 129333114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Read https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...65#post1899265 for a solution to the problem. It is not as difficult as you think to fix it. But I do think reporting it even if you fix it is a good thing to do. Last edited by JSWolf; 12-28-2011 at 04:40 PM.

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12-24-2011, 04:22 PM	#32
PeterT Grand Sorcerer Posts: 12,172 Karma: 73448616 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Toronto Device: Nexus 7, Clara, Touch, Tolino EPOS	Also, remember that for true ePubs from Kobo, there is NO automatic re-downloading of them on new / updated versions being placed on the website, so if there is a book you HAVE had issues with, it would be well worthwhile re-downloading it to see if there have been changes. Books in k-ePub format will be automatically re-downloaded by both Kobo Desktop AND any of the WiFi based units when they sync with Kobo.

12-25-2011, 12:14 AM	#33
ChristopherTD Addict Posts: 343 Karma: 1010002 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: London. UK Device: Marvin Reader on iPad Air (via Calibre)	Remember, for this to be visible, one has to be trying to read the book in a reader other than Kobo's reader. This would be a very small proportion of users (though a significantly higher proportion of MobileRead users). Kobo have said they will refund the purchase, but they also said they have to get a replacement from the publisher, though the insertion of kobo.css surely happened after the publisher handed over the file. I don't think the intent is evil, rather one of insufficient testing on alternative readers - the books look weird in desktop Adobe Digital Editions even. I have purchased over a hundred books from Kobo, preferring to support them as an alternative to Amazon. I don't particularly like their iOS reader, but I just use a different one. The overriding of publishers styling within the book, rather than with presentation tweaks in software, is what I am unhappy about. Insertion of Kobo's own stylesheets and JavaScript is not an accident, so while it remains a possibility I don't choose to buy there. I re-purchased Master and Commander from Waterstones and the book is fine, no extraneous styling.

12-27-2011, 11:00 PM	#35
Bookworm_Girl E-reader Enthusiast Posts: 4,871 Karma: 36507503 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Southwest, USA Device: Kindle Oasis 3; Kobo Aura One; iPad Mini 5	Thank you so much, rashkae, pvs, and ChristopherTD! I just experienced this problem on a book I purchased today. Your posts pointed me in the proper direction to understand the issue with my book, which was the Kobo CSS and Javascript. I tend to agree with others that the book has been Koboized, and it is not the publisher's fault. If you are only reading on a Kobo, then you'll probably never know any different like those of us who buy Kobo Adobe EPUB's to read on non-Kobo ereaders. It's very interesting that Feedbooks has now written on this problem since Kobo has partnered with FNAC, a major retailer of French ebooks. That should get the issue more attention. In my case, the font was super large and could not be modified smaller. Sorry but a dozen words on a page is just not readable for me! I have been purchasing books from Kobo since back when they were known as Shortcovers. Clearly, they have made changes recently. It appears to be only on books that have been published in the last few months. Very disappointing! Kobo was a primary source of books for me, but now I will have to look elsewhere until they fix this problem. I'm also out $13 as I plan to re-purchase the book from another source since I really want this book as the publisher intended. Anyway, search around on the internet or even in the other sub-forums on MobileRead like Sony and calibre, and you'll find other posts discussing this issue and how to fix it on your own if you don't want to repurchase the book.

12-27-2011, 11:33 PM	#37
rashkae Wizard Posts: 1,147 Karma: 5061953 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada Device: Kobo Aura HD	There's an irony here I just thought of that almost bring a tear of laughter to my eye. I remember when the Kobo first gen was relatively new, there was much wailing and grinding of teeth that some books would not adjust text size. As it turns out, back then, the Kobo could not resize text if the text size was specified in pixels rather than the more 'recomended' em. Now we come full circle. If you look at the kobo.css, what do they do? Specify a text size in pixels.

12-28-2011, 12:02 AM	#38
ChristopherTD Addict Posts: 343 Karma: 1010002 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: London. UK Device: Marvin Reader on iPad Air (via Calibre)	The book was Master and Commander by Patrick O'Brian. I suspect the formatting change was added to their workflow recently, so books already in the store to the store before that are untouched. I would be very surprised if the Kobo CSS/JS was added by the publisher, but that is what Customer Service told me and they also advised me that using the Kobo software was a workable solution. Which it isn't, for me at least, but the ticket is closed. They did give me a store credit, which I used on older book which was not formatted strangely, and purchased M&C from Waterstones with no formatting issues.

12-28-2011, 12:27 AM	#39
Bookworm_Girl E-reader Enthusiast Posts: 4,871 Karma: 36507503 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Southwest, USA Device: Kindle Oasis 3; Kobo Aura One; iPad Mini 5	I bought 3 books today. I had issues with 2 books, which were both published in December 2011. The book published in 2010 did not have any problems. From this thread and other posting, it appears to be a variety of publishers. Here is an example book that is currently on promotion as a free book (for the US at least). Check out Vince Flynn's Transfer of Power. It has this Kobo-ization issue.

12-28-2011, 12:42 AM	#40
rashkae Wizard Posts: 1,147 Karma: 5061953 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada Device: Kobo Aura HD	I still think this is Kobo doing, but there is another possability. Suppose that publishers might have some kind of software that automatically creates all the various ebook versions they need (like Smashwords' meatgrinter, and just as brain dead.). I could see something like that software recently having added a kobo profile, and overnight, all publishers who use the same software on the latest version are feeding Kobo files that are 'koboized.' I would even believe the possability that the output of this theoretical software is encrypted and DRM'ed from the go, and no one at the publisher or at Kobo is even able to crack them open to examine the contents of the file in question. But considering the continued silence and ignoring of the issue going on, I'm more inclined to think this a policy issue, and not a technical one. Usually, when a technical issue crops up, Kobo devs (to their credit) are lightning fast at investigating and fixing.

12-28-2011, 04:40 PM	#45
SameerH Product Manager Posts: 487 Karma: 590887 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Toronto Device: Kobo Aura H2O	Hi guys, sorry I haven't read through the entire thread, but wanted to assure everyone that there is no conspiracy Adobe ePubs should not be using Kobo CSS as many of you have pointed out. I'm not on the content development team but they are aware of the problem and are working to fix it and republish impacted books. Sorry for not replying earlier, things a bit busy as you can well imagine I'll relay what information I can from the team as I get it. Hope that clears some things up.

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