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Old 11-02-2011, 09:32 AM   #46
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How about simple citations for illegally downloading copyrighted material; like a traffic ticket? Downloading an illegal copy of Harry Potter is no worse than making an illegal left turn; and should be treated that way.
That is more reasonable, but who should be responsible for detecting and issuing the tickets?
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:40 AM   #47
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Upload and Download. With a torrent, the distinction is almost meaningless. So since every downloader is a simultaneous uploader, everyone having a copy can be said to be at fault (except the last guy in line, I suppose).
That was why I said original uploader. Without them, nobody downloads anything. I still maintain that they are the only ones responsible for any alleged loss of profit.
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:45 AM   #48
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That was why I said original uploader. Without them, nobody downloads anything. I still maintain that they are the only ones responsible for any alleged loss of profit.
I agree mostly they are the responsible party, but that does not mean downloading is legal though because it is essentially making a copy of a copyright protected item.
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:50 AM   #49
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That is more reasonable, but who should be responsible for detecting and issuing the tickets?
More to the point, not everyone has a webcam so how would you determine who should get the fine? It wouldn't really be cost-effective to inspect people's computers for evidence.

In the UK, at least, someone acting on behalf of the copyright holder (usually for a share of the profits from any early settlements) collects IP addresses and contacts the ISP for a list of account holder details to send threatening letters to.
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:55 AM   #50
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I agree mostly they are the responsible party, but that does not mean downloading is legal though because it is essentially making a copy of a copyright protected item.
I didn't say it was legal. Just that they are the wrong target, and at least some of them will be doing it without knowing it isn't legal. How many threads has there been here with people asking whether a particular site with free ebooks is legal or not?

And some writers do put their stuff on flagrantly pirate sites for promotional reasons
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:55 AM   #51
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More to the point, not everyone has a webcam so how would you determine who should get the fine? It wouldn't really be cost-effective to inspect people's computers for evidence.

In the UK, at least, someone acting on behalf of the copyright holder (usually for a share of the profits from any early settlements) collects IP addresses and contacts the ISP for a list of account holder details to send threatening letters to.
Yes, that too. I presume the owner of the download account, but that might not be "right" either...
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Old 11-02-2011, 10:05 AM   #52
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... at least some of them will be doing it without knowing it isn't legal.....

And some writers do put their stuff on flagrantly pirate sites for promotional reasons
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

and yes there are legitimate promotional reasons to give something away, that is not what we're talking about though
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:17 PM   #53
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That was why I said original uploader. Without them, nobody downloads anything. I still maintain that they are the only ones responsible for any alleged loss of profit.
Are you suggesting that, once a single person has uploaded a book illegally, everybody else in the world should be able to download it with impunity?
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:24 PM   #54
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Are you suggesting that, once a single person has uploaded a book illegally, everybody else in the world should be able to download it with impunity?
No, I'm saying any alleged loss is entirely due to the original uploader.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:30 PM   #55
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No, I'm saying any alleged loss is entirely due to the original uploader.
No, it isn't. The loss is due to the DOWNloading, not the UPloading. There would be no loss whatsoever if nobody downloaded it.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:36 PM   #56
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No, it isn't. The loss is due to the DOWNloading, not the UPloading. There would be no loss whatsoever if nobody downloaded it.
If nobody uploaded it there would be no downloaders ...

(well there would, but they would just download something else instead).
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:39 PM   #57
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I see your point, but I honestly think that the downloaders are just as guilty as the uploaders. I very strongly suspect that the overwhelming majority of people who download illegal eBooks from BT, Usenet, etc, know jolly well that what they're doing is illegal.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:40 PM   #58
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Hi,

Assuming this is to go after people who download and not people who made the pirate ebooks available... Silly question ... what keeps the accused from going out and simply buying old paperback versions of all of these books after the fact, and claiming they have already paid for the book? Unless you downloaded absolutely huge numbers of pirated ebooks, simply buying the book would be cheaper that dealing with this nonsense, wouldn't it?

I wonder how the courts would look at an illegal digital copy of an ebook you already own - as long as you do not give it away or post it for others?

It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:59 PM   #59
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Assuming this is to go after people who download and not people who made the pirate ebooks available... Silly question ... what keeps the accused from going out and simply buying old paperback versions of all of these books after the fact, and claiming they have already paid for the book? Unless you downloaded absolutely huge numbers of pirated ebooks, simply buying the book would be cheaper that dealing with this nonsense, wouldn't it?
This article concerns BitTorrent users. The way BitTorrent works is that downloads are also uploaders, you download different sections of a file from lots of different people, while making available the sections you already have to still more people.
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Old 11-02-2011, 02:05 PM   #60
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I see your point, but I honestly think that the downloaders are just as guilty as the uploaders. I very strongly suspect that the overwhelming majority of people who download illegal eBooks from BT, Usenet, etc, know jolly well that what they're doing is illegal.
Of course they do and not only that, even if they don't know, it doesn't give them free reign to break the law.
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