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Old 11-04-2011, 03:47 PM   #46
Steven Lyle Jordan
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Guys, he's trying to provoke you... to upset you with an abstract question that has no concrete answer (and that he refuses to provide himself).

Inspiration is One. Tool. in an author's chest. You can choose to use it or not. And if you're a decent writer, your work will have no less worth for not using it.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:16 PM   #47
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Agreed.

Still there is that old saying, to which I'll refer you.

http://www.robertfulford.com/SufferFools.html

Last edited by kennyc; 11-04-2011 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 05:36 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Guys, he's trying to provoke you... to upset you with an abstract question that has no concrete answer (and that he refuses to provide himself).
More likely he had no idea what he was talking about when the thread started, and this was his way of asking without actually having to admit to being ignorant.

Inspiration is the first spark that gets the thought process started. The one that makes you look at something like a photo or a situation across the street and ask yourself, "what on earth led up to that?" and immediately realize, "oh, of course, this or that would!"

And if you take that spark, fan it and feed it, then you can get a story out of it, if you can be bothered to write it down. But that takes more thinking and work and writing, and without all that effort, the inspiration was kind of wasted and useless. It's perfectly possible to be hit by inspiration all the time and never create anything. It's also possible to create without that first spark, if you want to and know what you're doing.

Inspiration, whatever it is, makes it easier, but I doubt it's necessary.
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:59 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Guys, he's trying to provoke you... to upset you with an abstract question that has no concrete answer (and that he refuses to provide himself).

Inspiration is One. Tool. in an author's chest. You can choose to use it or not. And if you're a decent writer, your work will have no less worth for not using it.
I was waiting for everyone to get a chance, away from work and writing contests, to digest what has been said and perhaps make comments, to check out the "challenge," and/or someone new to show up and post, with also of course one of the most prodigious snippy posters upping his count even more above 25K, and then I was going to close out nicely but you showed up unexpectedly, and I find myself wanting to remark.

I thought you "were so out of here" or something like that, but anyway so glad to have you join us again.

Last edited by frahse; 11-05-2011 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:11 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by frahse View Post
I was waiting for everyone to get a chance, away from work and writing contests, to digest what has been said and perhaps make comments, to check out the "challenge," and/or someone new to show up and post, with also of course one of the most prodigious snippy posters upping his count even more above 25K, and then I was going to close out nicely but you showed up unexpectedly, and I find myself wanting to remark.

I thought you "were so out of here" or something like that, but anyway so glad to have you join us again.
And still you've said nothing. Either join in or go away.
You think you are such a writer and know more than everyone else, let's see it. What have you published, where's your samples?

In the mean time let's discuss writing in this thread. Here' some advice from Robert J. Sawyer: http://www.sfwriter.com/owindex.htm

Last edited by kennyc; 11-05-2011 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:56 AM   #51
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Moderator Notice

Ok, the laundry is out and someone didn't use Cheer. Let's move on, advancing the idea of "this writing thing" in ways that might be interesting and fruitful for anyone who aspires toward writing, leaving out the personal attacks that verge on innuendo, etc.

My goodness, have some fun here!
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:01 AM   #52
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Thanks Dr.

And from that R.J. Sawyer advice, he mentions Heinleins rules (which are good ones):

http://www.sfwriter.com/ow05.htm

.HEINLEIN'S RULES FOR WRITING
----------------------------

1. You must write.
2. You must finish what you write.
3. You must refrain from rewriting, except to editorial order.
4. You must put the work on the market.
5. You must keep the work on the market until it is sold.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:04 AM   #53
Steven Lyle Jordan
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I thought you "were so out of here" or something like that, but anyway so glad to have you join us again.
I was asked to come back and try to straighten this thread out. I added my last comment, which mirrors my first comment, as I have nothing else to add to that rather circular discussion.

(And by the way, are you ever going to answer the question that's been posed to you? And don't reply to me... tell them.)

In the meantime, let's try something new: Discussing how people do this writing thing. We've been flogging "inspiration" long enough... maybe we should move on to "perspiration," i.e., the work involved in writing.

I'll start: Writing, for me, isn't that hard. The hard part is figuring out what to write, and how to write it. Outlines, character designs, element notes, drafts, all that has to be done before I can write the first word of a story. Once I have all that, and I figure out where in the story to start, the words just start to flow, and the flow doesn't stop until I'm at the end.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:21 AM   #54
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Thanks for that Steve. I agree, there are many facets to writing as mentioned in my posts above. Inspiration is one of them, but more importantly is simply the "persperation" as you say -- getting the word on paper (in computer) is where the rubber meets the road.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:43 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
.HEINLEIN'S RULES FOR WRITING
----------------------------

1. You must write.
2. You must finish what you write.
3. You must refrain from rewriting, except to editorial order.
4. You must put the work on the market.
5. You must keep the work on the market until it is sold.
I disagree with rule 3. There's a few times when I've rewritten something shortly after writing it, and it worked better. Course, there's been just as many where I've rewritten and then found myself spamming control-Z (meta-Z when I was still running MacOS, since I've been using the same windows keyboard since '05 or so) to undo the changes I'd made. Its a dice roll every time.

Rule 5 is probably also less relevant in the days of ebook publishers and their reduced overhead.
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:15 PM   #56
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I disagree with rule 3. There's a few times when I've rewritten something shortly after writing it, and it worked better. Course, there's been just as many where I've rewritten and then found myself spamming control-Z (meta-Z when I was still running MacOS, since I've been using the same windows keyboard since '05 or so) to undo the changes I'd made. Its a dice roll every time.

Rule 5 is probably also less relevant in the days of ebook publishers and their reduced overhead.
To be honest I agree with you. I think he was just being his pedantic self when he wrote that. I can see only you have a piece in shape, then to edit it needlessly is wrong, but if you have a good reason to change it then GO FOR IT! I say.

Again, with #5 it's a judgement call....
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:16 PM   #57
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#5 should probably be rewritten to read:

You should keep your book on the market until it sells (to plenty of customers).

#3 is a toss-up; I don't have a problem rewriting, but usually it's just to fix continuity errors. (In one book, I managed to transpose the names of two characters between the front of the book and the back! And no, I'm not going to tell you which book.) I haven't done a lot of serious rewriting beyond that, other than to flesh out a scene that was too abbreviated the first time around. If you think a scene needs embellishment, by all means do it (or ask someone's opinion to see if they agree).
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:19 PM   #58
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... (or ask someone's opinion to see if they agree).
and that last comment can be crucial. Every successful writer I know of has a "trusted" reader or readers that they look to for those important issues. Often it is a spouse or fellow writer. Sometimes a writing group or selected members of that group....
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:30 PM   #59
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I think rule 5 should be completely ignored, you put it on the market forever. I dislike when books I love disappear and dont come back... or dont exist in ebook form! But thats just being selfish

As with everyone else I think that rule three is wrong, at least for me. I rewrite constantly as I go. Just finished another re-write pass, and the first draft is not written. I guess I just have more of an iterative writing process then he did?
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:57 PM   #60
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I had a long post typed, and somehow erased it. I guess that's a sign I shouldn't post it. LOL

I like seeing how some of you write. I feel it is part inspiration and part perspiration. Mostly perspiration, I think, but without the ideas the perspiration turns out VERY BADLY.

Number three? Definitely need to rewrite. Who the heck can get all phrasing and ideas right the very first time? Or not have a character contradict themselves, or even lose track of who is speaking in a conversation?

This is all coming from an amateur writer. So take it for what it's worth.
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