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View Poll Results: September 2011 Mobile Read Book Club Vote
The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency (No. 1 in the Series) by Alexander McCall Smith 5 6.41%
A Study in Scarlet by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle 7 8.97%
The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo by Stieg Larsson 12 15.38%
The Chinese Maze Murders by Robert van Gulik (1st Judge Dee mystery by van Gulik) 21 26.92%
The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins 6 7.69%
The Book of Fate by Brad Meltzer 3 3.85%
Murder on the Orient Express by Agatha Christie 7 8.97%
Bruno, Chief of Police: A Novel Of The French Countryside by Martin Walker 3 3.85%
Ghost Story: A Novel of the Dresden Files (The Dresden Files, Book #13) by Jim Butcher 0 0%
Storm Front (The Dresden Files, Book #1) by Jim Butcher 14 17.95%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-23-2011, 08:36 PM   #46
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I'm one who likes the in progress poll results displayed. Yes, it makes sense to me that if it is obvious that my first choice will not be in contention then I will cast my vote for the book in contention that I would like to read and that does have a chance. Especially if it helps push this book ahead of one I really would not like to see win.
It's voting like this that skews the results. We may have very different results if we had a hidden vote. I'm just saying it's worth a try.

Is there a way for Alex to remove the link to see the votes before the vote is cast?
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:13 PM   #47
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It's voting like this that skews the results. We may have very different results if we had a hidden vote. I'm just saying it's worth a try.
Skews it how? It seems to me that skewing it in this manner is economically rational, ie, more people are going to be reasonably happy with the final result. Blind voting is more of an all or nothing proposition.

People are saying they're happy with the process as it is now. So why is it worth trying something different?

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I'll volunteer to give it a go for next month's vote if you like. I don't mind trying it.
Umm.... no, thank you.

ETA: I have yet to see why anyone thinks it would be better to have blind voting. Those of us who like the open vote have mentioned curiosity, familiarity with the literary profile of other MR members, enhanced strategic voting, among other reasons. But what is appealing about blind voting? "Fair" is applying a value to it that doesn't really obtain; any method can be fair if there's no overt coercion or multiple votes. What's the advantage? I'm really curious.

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Old 08-23-2011, 09:29 PM   #48
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I'll volunteer to give it a go for next month's vote if you like. I don't mind trying it.
And if your book lost, could we expect you to report the results of the vote with the same dispassionate acceptance of the will of the majority you displayed in this thread?
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:30 PM   #49
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And if your book lost, could we expect you to report the results of the vote with the same dispassionate adherence to the will of the majority you displayed in this thread?
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:42 PM   #50
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ETA: I have yet to see why anyone thinks it would be better to have blind voting. Those of us who like the open vote have mentioned curiosity, familiarity with the literary profile of other MR members, enhanced strategic voting, among other reasons. But what is appealing about blind voting? "Fair" is applying a value to it that doesn't really obtain; any method can be fair if there's no overt coercion or multiple votes. What's the advantage? I'm really curious.
An honest uninfluenced vote. No voting because your friend voted for it, no voting against because your enemy voted for it, no voting because "well its going to win, anyway", nor voting against becuase "well its going to lose anyway".
Also, if we can't see the votes before hand then it should also go without saying that we would not mention the specific book that got our vote. The result would then be a complete surprise for everyone, which I think might even make it more interesting over all.
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:56 PM   #51
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An honest uninfluenced vote. No voting because your friend voted for it, no voting against because your enemy voted for it, no voting because "well its going to win, anyway", nor voting against becuase "well its going to lose anyway".
Also, if we can't see the votes before hand then it should also go without saying that we would not mention the specific book that got our vote. The result would then be a complete surprise for everyone, which I think might even make it more interesting over all.
Interesting makes sense to me even if it doesn't persuade me. You like the surprise of not knowing; I can understand that--it's like watching the Oscars. But otherwise I'm uncomfortable with value judgments like "honest" and "fair." There's nothing dishonest with the current system. People make informed votes all the time. In a political election where there's been ample polling, people often pick a less bad candidate who's a serious contender over their ideal candidate who's a no-hoper. It doesn't invalidate the process.

I also think some of the influences you mention are fairly minor. Even if I don't care for a poster, I'm not going to vote against a book s/he's nominated if I want to read it. Nor will I vote for a book nominated by a crony, if I think that person has crappy taste (although obviously s/he must have other sterling qualities!).

I would just like to see a more dispassionate discussion that leaves out fairness and honesty and other loaded terms (with the implication that the opposing camp is in favor of a system neither fair nor honest), and focuses on the concrete advantages and disadvantages of each method.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:05 PM   #52
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Remove the word "honest", my answer remains the same.

"Invalidate" is also a loaded word, and I have not read anything in this thread that would suggest that anyone is invalidating anything. "We" are just asking to give something else a chance.
There may be no advantage for you, but there is obviously an appeal for those of us who would like to give blind voting a try.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:08 PM   #53
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And if your book lost, could we expect you to report the results of the vote with the same dispassionate acceptance of the will of the majority you displayed in this thread?
I would be totally honest and above board. And when the voting was done, I'd post the results. Would it be good to post who voted for which book or just the number of votes for each book?

I am honest and would not cheat just to get what I wanted. In fact, I'd be looking forward to the results.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:15 PM   #54
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Remove the word "honest", my answer remains the same.

"Invalidate" is also a loaded word, and I have not read anything in this thread that would suggest that anyone is invalidating anything. "We" are just asking to give something else a chance.
There may be no advantage for you, but there is obviously an appeal for those of us who would like to give blind voting a try.

I'm just asking what the appeal is, so I can understand it. For me, the current system is superior as I think more people will be reasonably pleased with the outcome. That should result in more people reading the selected book and a livelier discussion, also, which obviously is to be desired.

In any case, I'm not seeing a groundswell that says people don't like the current system. Quite the contrary.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:22 PM   #55
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I'm currently not voting (too much going on in my life right now), but I wouldn't continue with the book club if the current system was changed. Mostly I vote my heart and desires, but there are occasions when I like seeing how the vote is going and I *have*, on occasion, added a vote to a close competition for a book that I'd really like to see win. And I seriously don't believe that any monthly choice was ever *really* changed by having a public poll.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:24 PM   #56
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I'm just asking what the appeal is, so I can understand it. For me, the current system is superior as I think more people will be reasonably pleased with the outcome. That should result in more people reading the selected book and a livelier discussion, also, which obviously is to be desired.

In any case, I'm not seeing a groundswell that says people don't like the current system. Quite the contrary.
Issy, its not all or nothing! No one has said," OMG I hate the current system." I'm pretty sure if they did they would be gone by now. Its more of a "Hey, you know what would be cool to try ? A blind vote". Every person who has suggested or supported the idea, in the handful of conversations we've had, has asked that we try it for one month. That's it...just one month to see how the group likes it. The royal "we" might love it or the royal "we" might hate it, or the royal "we" might not give a rat's butt either way, but we could at least say that we tried it.

What is this fear of trying something new? Its not written in stone, and even if it was, someone's got a chisel and is ready to use it.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:28 PM   #57
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We have had this discussion before and currently the forum software does not support a blind vote. It was decided it was going to be too much for PilotBob to do it via PM. So I am volunteering to do it via PM and it will be 100% fair and above board.
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:32 AM   #58
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I prefer things the way they are.

For crying out loud, we're supposedly adult people and we're choosing what book to discuss, not selecting a president!

I like to be able to see early what books might look like winners so I can start hunting for them at libraries.

If I don't want to read the winning book I don't read it. What's the big deal?!
(For example this month: I have no desire whatsoever to read the current leader. Might read a couple of the others though.)
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:47 AM   #59
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My impression is that the majority is happy the way things are. I certainly am!
I am too.

It is nice to be able to see who voted for which book and so to be able to match tastes of other forum members with one's own. It also does not bother me that the number of votes per book is visible. I would never be tempted to vote for something that does not interest me just because the majority up to this point thought it might be nice reading material.

Edit: Participating by sending a PM is NOT an option for me; that would be a month I would definitely skip.

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Old 08-24-2011, 09:44 AM   #60
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I am too.

It is nice to be able to see who voted for which book and so to be able to match tastes of other forum members with one's own. It also does not bother me that the number of votes per book is visible. I would never be tempted to vote for something that does not interest me just because the majority up to this point thought it might be nice reading material.

Edit: Participating by sending a PM is NOT an option for me; that would be a month I would definitely skip.
In other words, you aren't voting for what you want, your voting for what someone else wants. This sort of thing is what a blind vote is meant to do away with. It's meant for you to vote for what you want, and not vote based on what someone else voted for.

I am sorry you feel you cannot vote if you cannot see what others have voted for before you cast your vote.

The reasons I'm seeing for not having a blind vote are the very reasons we should have a blind vote.
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