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Old 08-08-2011, 11:17 AM   #76
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What is your opinion on a something that tries to take over using vendor lock-in with an obsolete format and wants to stifle creativity?


ePub is not perfect, but Mobipocket is even less so. It's had it. It's time has come and gone. Amazon wants to do away with ePub if they could. They want to rule the eBook world using a format that really needs to go away.
As a user, given the choice of Amazon's ecosystem or one based on Adept, I choose Amazon. If you want to beat them, do better than them.
It puzzles me that people who seem in general opposed to DRM are so insistent that we should all snuggle up with Adobe, who offer nothing to ebooks apart from DRM and shoddy software. They are the prototypical middleman shaving something off every transaction.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:25 AM   #77
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As a user, given the choice of Amazon's ecosystem or one based on Adept, I choose Amazon. If you want to beat them, do better than them.
It puzzles me that people who seem in general opposed to DRM are so insistent that we should all snuggle up with Adobe, who offer nothing to ebooks apart from DRM and shoddy software. They are the prototypical middleman shaving something off every transaction.
But if we can get rid of DRM, then Adobe would not get anything for every eBook sold. The issue isn't the ecosystem. It's the way Amazon wants us to take steps backwards instead of forwards. Amazon could just as easily have the same exact ecosystem using ePub instead of Mobipocket. But they don't. Amazon doesn't care about eBooks. It's just the bottom line for them.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:33 AM   #78
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But if we can get rid of DRM, then Adobe would not get anything for every eBook sold. The issue isn't the ecosystem. It's the way Amazon wants us to take steps backwards instead of forwards. Amazon could just as easily have the same exact ecosystem using ePub instead of Mobipocket. But they don't. Amazon doesn't care about eBooks. It's just the bottom line for them.
For are approaching it from a position of principle, I from one of practicality. It is about the ecosystem, as Amazon provides the best user experience. For someone to topple them won't take people complaining about it, but another company providing a better user experience. For all of the table about mobi vs ePub, for the vast majority of books sold it is an irrelevance, and doesn't affect the user experience.

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Amazon doesn't care about eBooks. It's just the bottom line for them.
They are all companies trying to make money. I think you are letting your emotions get the better of you if you think the same isn't true of B&N, Kobo, Sony, et all...
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:47 AM   #79
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For are approaching it from a position of principle, I from one of practicality. It is about the ecosystem, as Amazon provides the best user experience. For someone to topple them won't take people complaining about it, but another company providing a better user experience. For all of the table about mobi vs ePub, for the vast majority of books sold it is an irrelevance, and doesn't affect the user experience.
The ecosystem is there to try to trick people into believing that AZW is good. It's not. There are a lot of things it just doesn't get right and never will. Even a simple blockquote is gets wrong.


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They are all companies trying to make money. I think you are letting your emotions get the better of you if you think the same isn't true of B&N, Kobo, Sony, et all...
But at least they are current;y using the best format. Amazon is not using the best format. They are using a format that is even behind the now dead MS Reader format.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:54 AM   #80
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The ecosystem is there to try to trick people into believing that AZW is good. It's not. There are a lot of things it just doesn't get right and never will. Even a simple blockquote is gets wrong.
(Bangs head)
Most people have no idea what format the books are in, and couldn't care less.
It is a book. It has words, in sentences, in paragraphs. The fact that it doesn't support nice things like dropped caps and flowing around images don't seem to really matter, does it?
If it did, Amazon would just bring out a better format of it, or switch to ePub and wrap it in their own DRM. And the situation would be exactly the same as it is now.

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But at least they are currently using the best format. Amazon is not using the best format. They are using a format that is even behind the now dead MS Reader format.
And this doesn't matter. Being technically better means very little.
And frankly both formats are poorly suited to the job they are being put to.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:56 AM   #81
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And this doesn't matter. Being technically better means very little. And frankly both formats are poorly suited to the job they are being put to.
What do you feel is wrong with ePub? I know it's not perfect. But it's the best we currently have.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:59 AM   #82
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(Bangs head)
Most people have no idea what format the books are in, and couldn't care less.
It is a book. It has words, in sentences, in paragraphs. The fact that it doesn't support nice things like dropped caps and flowing around images don't seem to really matter, does it?
If it did, Amazon would just bring out a better format of it, or switch to ePub and wrap it in their own DRM. And the situation would be exactly the same as it is now.
They may if what I'm hoping comes to pass comes to pass. I'm hoping that the Harry Potter eBooks in ePub take advantage of features that Mobipocket just can't handle and that would make people wake up and see the differences. For example, if the ePub used font embedding to do it like the pBook did. If the ePub is done well, I can see reviews comparing them. And heck, I can see kids wanting their parents to then get a reader that isn't a Kindle.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:00 PM   #83
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What do you feel is wrong with ePub?
a) Silly things like having to split the files up into chunks to support obsolete readers, which make it utter unsuitable for an editing format.
b) More fundamentally, it is still based on a markup designed for display, not for content. Something like TEI, actually designed for the markup of electronic texts, would be technically far superior. That way a user could decide once how they wanted quotes, poetry, and so on to be displayed, create one stylesheet and have it apply to all texts, because the texts would be marked up for content. A blockquote would say it is a blockquote, rather than being tagged for central display with added margins. As it is nothing is consistent from one ebook to another, because all that matters is the display, not the markup itself.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:03 PM   #84
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They may if what I'm hoping comes to pass comes to pass. I'm hoping that the Harry Potter eBooks in ePub take advantage of features that Mobipocket just can't handle and that would make people wake up and see the differences. For example, if the ePub used font embedding to do it like the pBook did. If the ePub is done well, I can see reviews comparing them. And heck, I can see kids wanting their parents to then get a reader that isn't a Kindle.
So Amazon switch to ePub with their own DRM. You still can't read their books, they still can't read yours. What has changed? The format issue is a red herring. It is DRM which prevents interoperability. Apple use ePub, but their books are less accessible to you than Amazon's.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:04 PM   #85
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a) Silly things like having to split the files up into chunks to support obsolete readers, which make it utter unsuitable for an editing format.
b) More fundamentally, it is still based on a markup designed for display, not for content. Something like TEI, actually designed for the markup of electronic texts, would be technically far superior. That way a user could decide once how they wanted quotes, poetry, and so on to be displayed, create one stylesheet and have it apply to all texts, because the texts would be marked up for content. A blockquote would say it is a blockquote, rather than being tagged for central display with added margins. As it is nothing is consistent from one ebook to another, because all that matters is the display, not the markup itself.
a. It's not that difficult to edit an ePub with many chapters/sections/etc. I do it and it's quite easy.

b. Every hear of CSS? You define your blockquote in the CSS and then it's done. Also, not always should things look the same. It depends on how it's wanted to look. Do you see pBooks all looking the same? They don't. eBooks don't have to always look the same.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:48 PM   #86
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What do you feel is wrong with ePub?
In my opinion two things, very important to me:

1) It doesn't have any standard for dictionary. Mobi does. You can't buy ePub dictionaries and add them to your device. You can buy Mobi dictionaries and add them to your Kindle or other device that support mobi dictionaries and the selection of them is huge.

2) The way Adobe store the annotation. Epub does that in a XML format, no editable. Mobi does that in txt format, editable and intermediately accessible.

Those are the things that keeps me away from ePub, because they are very important to me.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:58 PM   #87
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And your point is......?
That Kindle users support libraries through their taxes and have just as much right to use the library as anyone else, and all this constant moaning and groaning about imagined wait times from ePub users is just selfish bellyaching from a bunch of Amazon/Kindle haters.

At least that's what I think his point is.

Last edited by carld; 08-08-2011 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:34 PM   #88
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Stop changing people's quotes. We do not mean what you want us to mean. We mean LIBRARY PATRONS and if you don't like it, go away.
No need, your latest statement looks good to me.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:35 PM   #89
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Amazon wants to do away with ePub if they could.
Link please?
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:37 PM   #90
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selfish bellyaching from a bunch of Amazon/Kindle haters.
They've lost / will lose their presumed specialness.
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