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Old 07-17-2011, 12:34 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by j.p.s View Post
Have you seen a Pocketbook 360 or a picture of one?
You mean the one with the giant dedicated page turn buttons? Yes, I've seen that one.
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:12 PM   #92
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A good 5 way button is better for page turns than dedicated page turn buttons.
To you maybe, I have always liked having the page turn buttons on the side.
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:14 PM   #93
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I sure hope not. Doing away with the keyboard wouldn't really bother me, but I want page turn, home, back, menu and a 5-way buttons (well, at least page turns).
That's the stuff I would like them to keep as well, removing most of those would just be doing it for the sake of it rather than for reasons of usability.
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:44 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
We concentrate on "page turning" because it represents, by far, the main interaction (and almost only interaction, depending on the individual reader) with the device.
This is why I phrased it as "while we tend to concentrate on page-turning".

I'm against doing away with buttons altogether. A good device should have dedicated page turn buttons as well as the touch interface.

When you say that you've 'tried' various touch devices, have you actually owned one? I ask, because I felt the same way as you do now before I bought my Sony. I wasn't noticeably impressed by the touch interface in the shop, and was perfectly satisfied with my Bookeen and Elonex which had excellent button-driven interfaces.

But after using the Sony in practice once I got it home I was in no doubt whatsoever that it was far easier and more intuitive to use.

Obviously everyone's mileage may vary, and you've got every right to love buttons and hate touchscreens, but I suspect that you'll get a hybrid machine in due course (as that seems to be the way the market is heading) and will find that the touch interface isn't as painful as you think.

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Old 07-17-2011, 02:53 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by carld View Post
You mean the one with the giant dedicated page turn buttons? Yes, I've seen that one.
The PB 360 does have two giant buttons, but they are not dedicated page turn buttons. I do have them configured to turn the page, but I go months without ever pressing them.

Except for maybe two handed landscape reading, the 5 way needs much less movement for page turning than using the other buttons. The only reason that I have not configured them to do something else is that I can do everything that I need with the 5 way button. If I ever start using bookmarks or notes much, I will probably configure the giant buttons for that.

I knew that I would be making some compromises in return for true pocketability, but I was surprised to find that some aspects of reading on this 5" 200dpi 600x800 screen are better than reading on the 6" 167dpi 600x800 Kindle 2. I get about the same number of words per screen, sometimes more. And I can jump to end notes, read them, and return to the main text much quicker and more easily. One handed reading (either hand) is a dream on the PB 360. On the Kindle 2, it is not a nightmare, but it is not pleasant for me. I often go back a page, and the weight and balance of the Kindle 2 in a cover are not comfortable for me in one hand.

I still say that a truly ergonomic 5-way button is much better, for me, than dedicated page turn buttons. That may not work for everyone, but it looks to me like people are rejecting the idea out of hand for reasons that do not apply. There is no requirement that a 5-way button be located someplace awkward to get to, or that its operation be vague, mushy, or prone to register a different direction than intended, or be otherwise uncomfortable to operate. This is not just some theoretical idea. The 5-way button on the PB 360 is just such a control. (Now, if they would just get their firmware and possibly electrical problems sorted..., but that has nothing to do with whether a 5-way button as the main or sole control is a good idea.)
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:05 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
Obviously everyone's mileage may vary, and you've got every right to love buttons and hate touchscreens, but I suspect that you'll get a hybrid machine in due course (as that seems to be the way the market is heading) and will find that the touch interface isn't as painful as you think.
When I have absolutely no other choice—and my current device dies a horrible death—then, and only then will I cross that bridge.
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:36 PM   #97
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—and my current device dies a horrible death—
Yup, that's what happened to my first two.

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Old 07-17-2011, 05:50 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by j.p.s View Post
I still say that a truly ergonomic 5-way button is much better, for me, than dedicated page turn buttons. That may not work for everyone, but it looks to me like people are rejecting the idea out of hand for reasons that do not apply. There is no requirement that a 5-way button be located someplace awkward to get to
If the 5-way is placed somewhere convenient then it adds a large amount to bezel, as on the PB 360. The slim page turn buttons on the Kindle 3 do not. And if it's not placed conveniently then it requires extra motion to turn pages.

I'm not saying a 5-way can't be useable. I just don't see it being as easy to use and as ergonomic as the Kindle 3's buttons, let alone superior.
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Old 07-17-2011, 05:57 PM   #99
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I say "Do away with those vestigial page turning contraptions! And give us a touch sensitive swiping mechanism, which more emulates the manner in which text is rendered on our ereaders! What is a page after all but a window of a text?"
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:35 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Giggleton
And give us a touch sensitive swiping mechanism, which more emulates the manner in which text is rendered on our ereaders!
I don't understand what that even means. What does a "swiping mechanism" have to do with how text is rendered on an ereader? I have no problem if you want to move to a touch system because you prefer it, but don't just make shit up.
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Old 07-17-2011, 07:17 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
You may say you love your buttons. But have any of you buttonholics actually tried a good touch interface? I have and I can say, there's very little need for buttons.
I can hold my K3 and turn pages all with ONE hand. Not sure how would I do that with a touch interface. But maybe a touch interface combined with minimal buttons work the best.
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:23 PM   #102
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I can hold my K3 and turn pages all with ONE hand. Not sure how would I do that with a touch interface. But maybe a touch interface combined with minimal buttons work the best.
it's extremely easy in fact much easier that having to push a button. Just a nice flix of your thumb right or left.
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:30 PM   #103
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it's extremely easy in fact much easier that having to push a button. Just a nice flix of your thumb right or left.
I hold my phone in my right hand, the thumb being on the very right edge of the screen. Then when I want to move to the next page I just press very slightly. If you want to hold your reader in your left hand you can just make the switch in settings. Since my phone is reader size already (5") I don't see why that would not work on a dedicated reader.

In the end we can argue all day, but all this comes down to what everybody is used to. I like touch screens because I want the device to be as small as possible, no giant bezel or buttons that take up a lot of space.
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:38 PM   #104
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I can hold my K3 and turn pages all with ONE hand. Not sure how would I do that with a touch interface. But maybe a touch interface combined with minimal buttons work the best.
Actually, a 5-way controller, properly implemented--like on the PB360--lets you control *everything* with one finger. You don't need the added expense of the touchscreen.

On my 360, I've programmed the left-right clicks to page forward and back, long-presses jump 10 pages forward and back; up and down jump to next or last chapter, long-presses call the TOC or dictionaries. Center button calls the app menu, long press the note-taking/highlighting. All by *my choice*; It's my reader and my GUI.

The K2/K3 5-way implementation isn't bad but it isn't great either; mostly it treats the switch as a mouse replacement. The Kindle UI is decent on discoverability but lacking in customizability and single-handed operation, though Amazon gets credit for trying. The touch screen crowd is so hooked on replicating the paper experience they don't even try.

I'm hoping that if Amazon does go with a Touch screen on one of the K4s, they remember the Rocketbook. Better yet, I hope their non-touch K4 ditches the keyboard and goes for a clean 5-way based GUI; its cheaper and the most motion efficient control system for reading.

Of the currently available touch models, I might consider the Nook Touch but you couldn't pay me to use the Kobo or Sonys.

Edit: Among the advantages of a good button-based interface for *reading* are the tactile feedback and ability to handle the display arbitrarilly without activating functions accidentally. The PB360 requires just the right amount of force to activate the rocker ring so I can keep my thumb on it and just increase the pressure to activate. No finger motion required.
I'm a fan of touchscreen on PDAs and computers but not for reading.
If nothing else, I can hold the PB360 in one hand and a sandwich with the other.

Last edited by fjtorres; 07-17-2011 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 07-18-2011, 02:12 AM   #105
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I can hold my K3 and turn pages all with ONE hand. Not sure how would I do that with a touch interface. But maybe a touch interface combined with minimal buttons work the best.
I can (and always do) hold my Sony650 and turn pages all with one hand. But then, I wouldn't buy a dedicated ereader without buttons to turn pages...
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