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Old 09-28-2007, 03:49 AM   #31
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Tunable delay

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Originally Posted by Hadrien View Post
While reading a book, there's 2 different status for the device, if you're turning pages pretty fast, the device stays completely on (and you can browse through your book really fast). If you're actually reading and not turning pages, the device use a sleep mode while waiting for the next input.
I read many times about the delay in page turning on many eInk devices, and the consequent frustration.

The Gen3 method you described seems wonderful, but I think could be easily optimized in a simple software way: allow the user to tune the time after which the system goes in sleep mode:
in this way, depending on how fast you read (e.g. 1'/page), you can set the threshold slightly above that time (e.g. 1'30''), and you are able to let it sink in sleep mode in a proper way while at the same time enjoying reading AND fast page turning...

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Old 09-28-2007, 04:42 AM   #32
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If the battery life is extremely long you can even run into the problem that you forget to charge it. It happens to me with my phone. It will last about 10 days when I'm not using it very often. So when I have to make a few long calls after a week, I drain the battery because there was only 15% power left. That never happend to me with my old phone. That one lasted 2 days max. So it was on the charger whenever possible

You cannot forget about charging Sony reader because a battery indicator is always in front of your eyes.

I am really impressed with Sony's battery life now. Moreover, the battery looses its ability to hold a charge after awhile. When I bought Sony, I was recharging it once in 3 1/2 weeks. It is once in 2 1/2 weeks now. So, anything like 4 days will be only 2-3 days after 1 year of useage, which is very poor imho. It is better to buy illiad then, at least you get a bigger sceen as a trade off.
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Old 09-28-2007, 04:58 AM   #33
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You cannot forget about charging Sony reader because a battery indicator is always in front of your eyes.

I am really impressed with Sony's battery life now. Moreover, the battery looses its ability to hold a charge after awhile. When I bought Sony, I was recharging it once in 3 1/2 weeks. It is once in 2 1/2 weeks now. So, anything like 4 days will be only 2-3 days after 1 year of useage, which is very poor imho. It is better to buy illiad then, at least you get a bigger sceen as a trade off.
You are perhaps forgetting that, unlike either the Sony or the iLiad, the CyBook has a user-replaceable battery.
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Old 09-28-2007, 05:01 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by astra_lestat View Post
You cannot forget about charging Sony reader because a battery indicator is always in front of your eyes.
That indicator is also on my phone. The 'problem' is that there is so much power in the battery that I think mwah, there is enough left, I will charge it this evening. But of course I do not look at my phone 24*7. So the next day I pick up the phone and see Ah..I should charge it. But not now, because the charger is at home. When you have to do something every day, you will do it. For example brush your teeth, hookup the phone to the charger go to bed. When you have to that once a week you will forget.
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Old 09-28-2007, 05:33 AM   #35
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You are perhaps forgetting that, unlike either the Sony or the iLiad, the CyBook has a user-replaceable battery.
I stand corrected
It makes my statement:
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So, anything like 4 days will be only 2-3 days after 1 year of useage, which is very poor imho
invalid.
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Old 09-28-2007, 05:42 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ortep View Post
That indicator is also on my phone. The 'problem' is that there is so much power in the battery that I think mwah, there is enough left, I will charge it this evening. But of course I do not look at my phone 24*7. So the next day I pick up the phone and see Ah..I should charge it. But not now, because the charger is at home. When you have to do something every day, you will do it. For example brush your teeth, hookup the phone to the charger go to bed. When you have to that once a week you will forget.
Probably it is a personal issue then

When I bought my mobile, I also bought one with a long battery life. So, sometimes the same thing happens to me too

However, it never ever happened with the reader. Don't know why. Maybe because you(me, or anyone else) use the reader in a different way. I mean when you talk on the phone you have only short periods of time when you actually look at the screen and see battery indicator (and mostly it happens when you are away from home!), while when you use the reader the indicator is in fron of your eyes for prolonged periods of time. Lets say 20 minutes and more. When I come home, I forget about mobile altogether until next morning. Next time I noticed the indicator when I am at work and there is no charger around. It is very different with the reader. There is a significant life time between every bar of the indicator, so when I finish my reading session before I go to sleep I can always determine whether I need to recharge the reader over the night or not.

Last edited by astra; 09-28-2007 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 09-28-2007, 08:56 AM   #37
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... I also know from that experience that deadlines get missed. Launches get pushed, and generally (from the iLiad experience), it's better to wait an extra month or even three for a product that actually does what it was designed to do, rather than one that's not there yet.
I'm just pointing out that Bookeen didn't have to set a deadline, but they did, and then they didn't respect it. If I did that kind of thing at work, I could get into a lot of trouble.

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Why is it that you are so hostile? have you never seen other companies miss their release deadlines before? The Cybook gen3 could be released before the software is ready. Do you want to see that happen?
Why are you defending Bookeen? I have seen other companies miss their deadlines, and that's another reason Bookeen's delay is disappointing. What I would have wanted was for the software to be ready when they said it would be. If the problem is the software, as you are theorising, then there is absolutely no excuse for the delay.

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Bookeen are completely dependend upon their external suppliers, such as the screen manufacturer. It is well documented that there have been delays in the supply of the new Vizplex screens that the CyBook uses. These delays are completely outside Bookeen's control.
They can anticipate delays, and should have, considering past history in the ebook industry. Either they didn't anticipate the delay, or they don't care about missing the deadline. We should demand that they set realistic deadlines instead of pulling a date out of their hat and when the date rolls around they tell us: "Oops, better luck next time."

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That's a very foolish thing to say. Do you honestly believe that Bookeen deliberately misled people about the delivery date? The date was an estimate, not a "promise". Nobody can make "promises" about future events, because nobody can predict the future. You haven't "lost" anything through this delay, have you? You haven't paid Bookeen any money, or ordered a machine from them? What are you so upset about?
They may not have deliberately misled people, but there was heedlessness in their behaviour, which may amount to a certain degree of intention. Posing an act without regard to the consequences is equivalent to having wanted to consequences. People are declared guilty of murder based on that principle.

We can make promises about future events. Have you ever had a mortage? It's a promise to pay the bank what you owe them, otherwise you forfeit your house. In this case there doesn't seem to be any forfeiture for Bookeen, because you consumers are used to getting the short end of the stick.

I don't intend to buy a Cybook, so I haven't lost anything. I couldn't care less about when the device is released. What I care about is corporate ethics. I'm upset about the way Bookeen, and other companies like Sony and iRex, treat us like sheep. I guess some of us are sheep.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:07 AM   #38
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They are late, that is true. It happens. But they have not slipped so far behind that support in general is eroding in any way. I think you'll find that almost everyone will be accepting of a 1-month delay. If it goes to 2-months, a few more people will be upset. 3-months, even more will be upset. That's just how things like this go. The longer the delay, the less supporting potential people will be of Bookeen.

It looks like balok is one of the rare people for whom any delay is unacceptable and worthy of vocal outcry. I don't know balok, but he may be the classical "Type-A" personality and keeps a firm grip on is nitroglycerin tablets. Or maybe he's prejudging Bookeen based on the delay fiasco of last year's first generation crop of E-Ink devices from Sony and iRex.

I'll give Bookeen a little more time, but if they're not ready to fulfill orders in October then I may be among the upset few voicing doubts about Bookeen.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:46 AM   #39
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The longer the delay, the less supporting potential people will be of Bookeen.
Unfortunately, I think people will still be grovelling at their feet, fists full of cash, to get their hands on the latest gadget.

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Or maybe he's prejudging Bookeen based on the delay fiasco of last year's first generation crop of E-Ink devices from Sony and iRex.
Ok, I have to admit, you've got a point here. I was expecting Bookeen to not make the same mistake. Now I'm wondering if it was in fact a mistake, since it doesn't seem to bother anyone except me.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:52 AM   #40
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It's a free market; you are, of course, free to buy from whomsoever you wish.

I think that one has to accept, however, that the eInk market is still very much in its infancy, and whenever a company launches a "next generation" product such as the CyBook Generation 3, delays are highly likely. There can be entirely unanticipated problems in going from engineering samples of new screen technologies to large-scale production.

As I said earlier, delays do not personally bother me in the slightest. I would much rather that a company delayed the release of a product until it's "right", rather than rushed a buggy product to market to meet an arbitrary deadline.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:58 AM   #41
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PVI supplies the screens. If they say to you, yes we can get you the number of screens you need in time for you to get out oyour product in September, you say great and go ahead and announce a September release date. PVI then turns around and says, sorry, we aren't able to make our deadline, you then have to turn around and say, sorry, but the release date is pushed back. You as the one selling the finished product have your release date pushed back due to no fault of your own. Stuff like that happens all the time. You are now blaming the company making the product when in fact, you should be blaming the parts supplier.
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:26 AM   #42
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they bette r try to get it right the first time. there will always be something to complain about...
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:40 AM   #43
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I think the delay comes from Bookeen and not PVI since "les echos" is already selling
a vizplex reader with the same hardware and the same design (except it's white).
See : http://www.ganaxa.com
http://www.lesechos.fr/epaper/inscription.htm

You can even compare the speed of the Bookeen GEN3 / Ganaxa GER2 with the old gen of eink :
http://papierelectronique.blogspot.com/

Last edited by guguy; 09-28-2007 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:53 AM   #44
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I think the delay comes from Bookeen and not PVI since "les echos" is already selling
a vizplex reader with the same hardware and the same design (except it's white).
See : http://www.ganaxa.com
http://www.lesechos.fr/epaper/inscription.htm

You can even compare the speed of the Bookeen GEN3 / Ganaxa GER2 with the old gen of eink :
http://papierelectronique.blogspot.com/
That must just be a rebranded HanLin V3 (based of course off the PVI reference design). I can't imagine the paper went through the R&D needed to develop and manufacture their own reader.
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Old 09-28-2007, 11:01 AM   #45
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I take it back, now I'm not 100% sure. Who is Ganxa? Are they really developing their own stuff or just re-branding? I see eREAD is one of their partners. Isn't eREAD just the manufactuer of all the devices based off the reference design? Companies like HanLin, Bookeen, and many Ganaxa just repackage and customize the reference design and eREAD implements and manufactuers them?

So many companies all using the same basic design. I'm so confused as to who is who.

Philips designed E-Ink which begat PVI for the screens and iRex as a device developer. Where exactly did eREAD come from? Are they a subsidiary or PVI who helps with the OEM customization and contracts manufacturing of the devices based off the PVI reference design? Did they actually develop the reference design for PVI?

Last edited by MikeF74; 09-28-2007 at 11:03 AM.
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