Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Software > Calibre > Devices

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-06-2011, 03:04 PM   #46
adv_dp_fan
Connoisseur
adv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five words
 
Posts: 90
Karma: 37660
Join Date: May 2010
Device: Sony 505, iPad 1 & 3, Galaxy Note 8.1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApK View Post
Are you annoyed that you can't specify what sectors your OS uses when it writes files to your disk? Think of Calibre library the same way.
Not really a good example as my OS doesn't force me to keep 3 to 5 copies of the file just because it wants to decide what sectors it wants to use.
adv_dp_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 03:10 PM   #47
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 25,451
Karma: 4961459
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
Quote:
Originally Posted by adv_dp_fan View Post
Not really a good example as my OS doesn't force me to keep 3 to 5 copies of the file just because it wants to decide what sectors it wants to use.
Exaggerate much? 3-5 my ever loving ass. If you want to spread FUD, at least have the grace to not do it here.
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 03:32 PM   #48
adv_dp_fan
Connoisseur
adv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five words
 
Posts: 90
Karma: 37660
Join Date: May 2010
Device: Sony 505, iPad 1 & 3, Galaxy Note 8.1
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
Exaggerate much? 3-5 my ever loving ass. If you want to spread FUD, at least have the grace to not do it here.
Hang on, I'm not trying to spread anything. I can easily see 3 copies, someone else posted about 4 copies and I though of one situation with 5 copies. So no, not exaggerating much. Touchy are you? Don't alienate a supporter who is just trying to figure out how best to use your software to meet his needs.

In my case, one copy in Calibre's library, one copy in my own section for me to work with since Calibre doesn't want us messing with it's copy, one copy in iTunes to sync since we sync from Calibre and not our copies and a back up on another drive on the system. I saw someone else counting the copy on the device so that could be 5 but I do think we should stick with copies on the actual system itself so 3-4.

Personally, I really like Calibre and think you have done a great job and am not trying to knock you and your work. I just though the OS/sector example wasn't a good one really.

I do have to carefully consider how I plan to move forward with these changes. Since I have several people in the house all using it for each of their readers, I though a networked database would be nice. Keep the library on a server and everyone could pull the books that they wanted on their devices over to their systems. (Do this now as all the ebooks are on one system and everyone runs their own Calibre locally.)

Problem I am seeing is that nobody wants to have everybody else's books messing up their clean libraries. It is the same with all our music. At the moment we are all holding on 0.8.6 and not upgrading while I figure out what is going to work best for us. Change how we manage our libraries, switch to just use iTunes or the Sony app to manage libraries now or just continue with 0.8.6 and never upgrade. Not sure what we'll do yet.

One question, the "faqs" list this as a change to support an "option" of a networked database in the future. What happens if we don't select that option and everything is local? Could things still be worked out to support using the local files in that case?

Also, on a side note, if we follow the instructions to "remove from device" after loading the book onto our iDevice, to save the extra space, won't that then delete it from the iDevice the next time we sync as it will no longer be in the iTunes library?

Again, you have written a nice piece of software. You have decided to take it in a new direction which is fine. Just have to figure out which direction is best for our particular cases.
adv_dp_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 03:37 PM   #49
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 25,451
Karma: 4961459
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
calibre "forces" you to keep only one copy. The extra copy for itunes is present because of itunes (or more precisely because Apple dont want you to use anything other than itunes to send files to their devices). There is nothing that prevents you from working on files in the calibre library, so there is no need to keep an extra copy to work on. The only restriction is that you don't move the files around outside of calibre.

As for the network backend, once again, it is *optional*. Don't use it if you dont want to, in which case calibre will continue to work as it does today.
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 03:46 PM   #50
ApK
What did you call me?
ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,103
Karma: 33796995
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ, USA
Device: Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
As for the network backend, once again, it is *optional*. Don't use it if you dont want to, in which case calibre will continue to work as it does today.
I want to make sure I'm clear: using a networked backend is optional, but the architectural changes which enable it, which prevent the Apple driver from directly accessing a file in the library, as it had done until now, are not optional, and GRiker's Original post info will apply to anyone who uses an iDevice with 0.8.8 or higher whether they use a network backend or not, correct?

ApK
ApK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 03:47 PM   #51
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 25,451
Karma: 4961459
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApK View Post
I want to make sure I'm clear: using a networked backend is optional, but the architectural changes that enable it, which prevent the Apple driver from directly accessing a file in the library, as it had done until now, are not optional, and GRiker's Original post info will apply to anyone who uses 0.8.8 or higher whether they use a network backend or not, correct?

ApK
Yes. And let me repeat, that the old architecture which had itunes directly referencing files in the calibre library, was IMO, not the best. For example, if you change the title/author of a book that you had previously sent to itunes, in the old architecture, its path on disk would change and itunes would lose track of it. Or on windows, where files are locked whenever they are opened, if you try to do some operation on a file while it is open in iTunes, the operation would fail. Conversely if calibre is doing something to the file and itunes tries to open it, it would fail.

So, I think this change is a desirable thing, regardless of the network backend.

Last edited by kovidgoyal; 07-06-2011 at 03:51 PM.
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 03:50 PM   #52
ApK
What did you call me?
ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,103
Karma: 33796995
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ, USA
Device: Kindle
Got it, Thanks. You answered faster than I can correct my typos.
ApK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 03:54 PM   #53
adv_dp_fan
Connoisseur
adv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five words
 
Posts: 90
Karma: 37660
Join Date: May 2010
Device: Sony 505, iPad 1 & 3, Galaxy Note 8.1
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
calibre "forces" you to keep only one copy. The extra copy for itunes is present because of itunes (or more precisely because Apple dont want you to use anything other than itunes to send files to their devices). There is nothing that prevents you from working on files in the calibre library, so there is no need to keep an extra copy to work on. The only restriction is that you don't move the files around outside of calibre.
I know we can "work" on the copy in the Calibre database, just not moving it, but it has always been recommended that we don't touch it at all and work on a copy outside Calibre. Which may be a good suggestion as I think I hit a situation where the meta was out of sync once and the only way to fix was to delete the book from the library and re-import it.

Apple does want us to use iTunes to sync but they don't force you have have a separate copy. At least up until now as they were happy to use the copy in the Calibre database. This is how all of my music, apps and everything else iTunes syncs is currently handled as I don't use the "copy to iTunes library" option.

In my case, I have one copy on a backup drive and then one copy in Calibre which was also used by iTunes so unless I have a copy out to work on for some reason I really only have 2 copies. Now I will have at least 3.

BTW, what happens with the unsupported sync with iDevice instead of the connect to iTunes method? Will that go away in this case or will that still be available but unsupported?

[Edited to remove a question answered before I could post.]
adv_dp_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 04:05 PM   #54
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 25,451
Karma: 4961459
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
Quote:
Originally Posted by adv_dp_fan View Post
I know we can "work" on the copy in the Calibre database, just not moving it, but it has always been recommended that we don't touch it at all and work on a copy outside Calibre. Which may be a good suggestion as I think I hit a situation where the meta was out of sync once and the only way to fix was to delete the book from the library and re-import it.
Metadata is stored in a central database, not in the files. So by working on the file, you do not run any risk of getting the metadata "out of sync". When you export (send to device/save to disk) a file from calibre the metadata in the exported copy is always updated to that in the central database.

And even if you do want to work on a private copy of a file, for whatever reason, that still does not mean that you have to store external copies of every file in your calibre library, only the file you are currently working on.

Quote:
Apple does want us to use iTunes to sync but they don't force you have have a separate copy. At least up until now as they were happy to use the copy in the Calibre database. This is how all of my music, apps and everything else iTunes syncs is currently handled as I don't use the "copy to iTunes library" option.
See my previous post for the problems with this approach, regardless of a network backend.

Quote:
In my case, I have one copy on a backup drive and then one copy in Calibre which was also used by iTunes so unless I have a copy out to work on for some reason I really only have 2 copies. Now I will have at least 3.
A backup is not a external copy that calibre is forcing you to have. Even if calibre did not exist, you would still backup your data.

Quote:
BTW, what happens with the unsupported sync with iDevice instead of the connect to iTunes method? Will that go away in this case or will that still be available but unsupported?
I have no idea, GRiker will have to answer that.
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 04:15 PM   #55
GRiker
Comparer of the Ephemeris
GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,497
Karma: 424627
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by adv_dp_fan View Post
BTW, what happens with the unsupported sync with iDevice instead of the connect to iTunes method? Will that go away in this case or will that still be available but unsupported?
Still available, still unsupported, and it uses the exact same code to reference/manage a local copy of the file. No difference with respect to the number of copies on your system.

G
GRiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 04:25 PM   #56
adv_dp_fan
Connoisseur
adv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five words
 
Posts: 90
Karma: 37660
Join Date: May 2010
Device: Sony 505, iPad 1 & 3, Galaxy Note 8.1
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
Metadata is stored in a central database, not in the files. So by working on the file, you do not run any risk of getting the metadata "out of sync". When you export (send to device/save to disk) a file from calibre the metadata in the exported copy is always updated to that in the central database.
Yes I know. I don't recall now what was out of sync, just something Calibre listed in the gui didn't match the files. I deleted it and re-imported and forgot about it and moved on. Just brought it up as an example of even though we can work on the Calibre versions, it is often best not to do so.

Quote:
See my previous post for the problems with this approach, regardless of a network backend.
All good examples. Stuff I never thought about as we've never had any issues like that. Many ways to deal with them.

Quote:
A backup is not a external copy that calibre is forcing you to have. Even if calibre did not exist, you would still backup your data.
Never meant to suggest Calibre was forcing me to have a backup. Just counting how many copies of a book might be on a system, which Calibre is forcing up by one now by not allowing us access to its copy. But this is all just nitpicking. Really just trying to get as much info so I can figure out which path to take for our purposes.

Thanks.
adv_dp_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 04:30 PM   #57
ApK
What did you call me?
ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,103
Karma: 33796995
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ, USA
Device: Kindle
Oh, and thanks again, GRiker, for being so responsive to our concerns about these changes and for your quick work on the changes between .8.7 and .8.8!
ApK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 04:31 PM   #58
adv_dp_fan
Connoisseur
adv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five wordsadv_dp_fan can name that ebook in five words
 
Posts: 90
Karma: 37660
Join Date: May 2010
Device: Sony 505, iPad 1 & 3, Galaxy Note 8.1
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRiker View Post
Still available, still unsupported, and it uses the exact same code to reference/manage a local copy of the file. No difference with respect to the number of copies on your system.
So you are saying it will still require an extra copy?
adv_dp_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 04:32 PM   #59
GRiker
Comparer of the Ephemeris
GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GRiker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,497
Karma: 424627
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApK View Post
Oh, and thanks again, GRiker, for being so responsive to our concerns about these changes and for your quick work on the changes between .8.7 and .8.8!
You're welcome.

G
GRiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2011, 12:08 PM   #60
Starson17
Wizard
Starson17 can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Starson17 can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Starson17 can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Starson17 can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Starson17 can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Starson17 can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Starson17 can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Starson17 can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Starson17 can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Starson17 can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Starson17 can program the VCR without an owner's manual.
 
Posts: 4,004
Karma: 177841
Join Date: Dec 2009
Device: WinMo: IPAQ; Android: HTC HD2, Archos 7o; Java:Gravity T
Quote:
Originally Posted by adv_dp_fan View Post
Calibre is forcing up by one now by not allowing us access to its copy.
That really is an unfair comment, you know. It's not that Calibre won't let you access its copy. There may not be a local copy and Apple insists upon a local copy. The real problem is that Apple won't let you (or Calibre) put your ebook on an Apple controlled device using anything other than Apple controlled software.
Starson17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
apple, idevice, ipad, iphone

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fetching News Schedule + exporting them to iTunes automation pweasel Calibre 8 06-17-2011 12:14 AM
Sharing news feeds among users. Sin Jeong-hun Calibre 3 10-09-2010 12:26 PM
NYT forces iTunes to pull Pulse News Reader Fotoman Apple Devices 6 06-09-2010 07:25 AM
Maybe important news from Italy beppe News 0 03-17-2010 04:06 PM
Mobile users don't keep backups of important numbers Colin Dunstan Lounge 4 02-23-2005 02:31 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:16 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.