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Old 06-10-2011, 01:38 PM   #31
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Now you all get to fight over who gets to be Hobbes and who is Calvin.
Awe - thanks for bringing back fond memories. I LOVED Calvin and Hobbes. Don't care which I get to be....as long as I'm not SUZE!

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Old 06-10-2011, 01:39 PM   #32
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The app still has to support in-app buys
No, it doesn't have to; that's the whole point. Amazon can create a pure "reader" version of the Kindle App with no in-app facility for buying books; if someone wants to buy a book they can simply go to the Amazon web site and do so.
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Old 06-10-2011, 01:44 PM   #33
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But to the minimal extent that this inconveniences users, it is all due to Apple's policy, not some technology issue that can be blamed on the vendor. It becomes an iOS user experience issue, and one not found on competing platforms. If their goal is to divert more sales to iBookstore, I don't think it will have that effect. To the extent that users understand the issue, it reflects poorly on Apple. So why are they doing this?
I find it much easier to shop for Amazon books because I usually do so from my computer, not my iphone nor iPad. I doubt this rule will phaze Amazon one bit.

Now if you want to sell something on Apple's platform and you DON'T have your own customer base like Amazon has -- well, I find it hard to fault Apple in this scenario.

Take the Olive Tree bible app. I've bought several books via this app never even realizing that Olive Tree had a web book store. When I found out, I also found out that Olive Tree sells it's products cheaper via it's website. So I go through the extra hassle to buy from Olive Tree via their website and save money. That's basically how things are going to go for all apps.

People will learn that they can have one click instant access tied to their itunes accounts, and they will have paid more. Or they can go out to the vendor's website, go through the hassle of entering their credit card info and save money.

No one else has anything close to being as customer friendly as Apple's platform.

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Old 06-10-2011, 03:06 PM   #34
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I find it much easier to shop for Amazon books because I usually do so from my computer, not my iphone nor iPad. I doubt this rule will phaze Amazon one bit.

Now if you want to sell something on Apple's platform and you DON'T have your own customer base like Amazon has -- well, I find it hard to fault Apple in this scenario.

Take the Olive Tree bible app. I've bought several books via this app never even realizing that Olive Tree had a web book store. When I found out, I also found out that Olive Tree sells it's products cheaper via it's website. So I go through the extra hassle to buy from Olive Tree via their website and save money. That's basically how things are going to go for all apps.

People will learn that they can have one click instant access tied to their itunes accounts, and they will have paid more. Or they can go out to the vendor's website, go through the hassle of entering their credit card info and save money.

No one else has anything close to being as customer friendly as Apple's platform.

Lee
There's a difference between publishers like Olive Tree and resellers like Amazon or B&N. In the former case, OT can mark up their in-app prices to cover Apple's cut of the sales. In the latter case, the sales price is often set by the publisher and so in-app sales are not an option: they cannot mark up the price, so there's no margin for the resellers to share with Apple, so they cannot offer the option to pay with iTunes account. That's what this whole saga has been about.

My point is that Apple seems to be requiring something that is not customer friendly (by forcing customers to find a way to purchase content that is not as convenient as what has been the case). And it's really not clear how the restated policy is going to be interpreted.

For example, will Apple approve an app that does the following: lets you browse for and download and read ebook samples. Sure, why not? they don't represent sales, they are free. But at the end of the sample, there happens to be a link that launches 'buy this book' workflow in the browser. The sample is not part of the app. Does Apple expect the app to filter links in book content and prevent certain ones from launching? Or for the vendor to deliver samples without a buy link (and what would be the point of that?)? If so, that REALLY puts a crimp in established purchasing workflows.

It would be much better if Apple just spelled out exactly which scenarios are allowed and which aren't, and made a distinction between resellers and publishers. One size fits all policies will not lead to a happy conclusion for everyone.
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Old 06-10-2011, 05:10 PM   #35
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My point is that Apple seems to be requiring something that is not customer friendly (by forcing customers to find a way to purchase content that is not as convenient as what has been the case). And it's really not clear how the restated policy is going to be interpreted.
Apple is providing a very friendly way for it's customers to acquire content. There's nothing easier than having an iOS device and one click buying via the app store or iTunes.

Companies that want to put free apps in Apple's store -- then sell the very same items Apple sells, but desiring not to pay Apple -- those are the companies who are being inconvenienced.

There's a LOT more inconvenience someone has to go through to buy non-Amazon kindle books to side load on a kindle.

The rest is just business negotiation between Amazon and those who want to be partners. All of us who shop at a mall deal with stores that have a lot more restrictions and higher overhead than those who shop at stores that build their own separate locations. The mall ads value, and charges stores more accordingly. That's why you never see a WalMart located in a mall. There's not enough room to pay the mall it's overhead and still charge the ultralow prices of Walmart.

But, regardless of whether we'll agree on which policies of Apple's are good or bad. It is clearly true that Apple has garnered a vast amount of support and content for it's platform and thus it's customers - more than anyone else has.

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Old 06-10-2011, 08:47 PM   #36
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Apple is providing a very friendly way for it's customers to acquire content. There's nothing easier than having an iOS device and one click buying via the app store or iTunes.

Companies that want to put free apps in Apple's store -- then sell the very same items Apple sells, but desiring not to pay Apple -- those are the companies who are being inconvenienced.

There's a LOT more inconvenience someone has to go through to buy non-Amazon kindle books to side load on a kindle.

The rest is just business negotiation between Amazon and those who want to be partners. All of us who shop at a mall deal with stores that have a lot more restrictions and higher overhead than those who shop at stores that build their own separate locations. The mall ads value, and charges stores more accordingly. That's why you never see a WalMart located in a mall. There's not enough room to pay the mall it's overhead and still charge the ultralow prices of Walmart.

But, regardless of whether we'll agree on which policies of Apple's are good or bad. It is clearly true that Apple has garnered a vast amount of support and content for it's platform and thus it's customers - more than anyone else has.

Lee
Yes, yes. I'm just saying this appears to portend a shift towards increased 'inconvenience' for some users (including myself). And that is regrettable, whatever the business justification (which Apple chooses not to delineate).

If the new policy also results in more reading apps leaving the App Store (Bluefire or txtr in particular, since these are the only iOS apps that license Adobe RMSDK and enable reading of purchased Adobe DRM ebooks on iOS), it will be very regrettable. We need continued competition and options and innovation on all platforms.
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:52 PM   #37
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Awe - thanks for bringing back fond memories. I LOVED Calvin and Hobbes. Don't care which I get to be....as long as I'm not SUZE!

Lee
Doesn't matter who anyone is, just so long as there's a rousing game of Calvinball at the end of the day.


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We need continued competition and options and innovation on all platforms.
Agreed completely.
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Old 06-11-2011, 11:02 PM   #38
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No one here objects to Amazon, BN, and Kobo closing their devices to iBooks, or argues that consumers are shortchanged by that.
That is because APPLE is the one who chose not to use Adobe DRM, thus making themselves incompatible with any other reader or software. And there has been a ton of hostility toward Amazon for their locked in system as well.
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:38 AM   #39
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Somehow I don't recall any discussions in Windows forums with users who are fretting that MS may pull their favourite application.
People pay substantial amounts of money to check into Jobs' walled garden and then they have to wonder if the guy who is guarding the walls will let their favourite things in. But it is all sooo user friendly..
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:13 PM   #40
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Somehow I don't recall any discussions in Windows forums with users who are fretting that MS may pull their favourite application.
People pay substantial amounts of money to check into Jobs' walled garden and then they have to wonder if the guy who is guarding the walls will let their favourite things in. But it is all sooo user friendly..
What is your point? The data for a Windows program is not protected by DRM so it can be used by other programs or exported to other formats.
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Old 06-16-2011, 04:31 PM   #41
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Amazon can create a pure "reader" version of the Kindle App with no in-app facility for buying books
They can do that, but will they want to? How much of the "in-app facility for buying books that redirected the user to Amazon" was part of the reason that they developed the iOS Kindle app in the first place?
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:25 PM   #42
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They can do that, but will they want to? How much of the "in-app facility for buying books that redirected the user to Amazon" was part of the reason that they developed the iOS Kindle app in the first place?
They would want to -- because:

1. They want to sell more ebooks. There are an aweful lot of iOS devices.
2. They want the kindle brand seen as ubiquitous (buy a kindle ebook and read it on any device).
3. They have enough brand recognition to not need an in-app link to their online book store.

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Old 06-16-2011, 09:36 PM   #43
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Yes, yes. I'm just saying this appears to portend a shift towards increased 'inconvenience' for some users (including myself). And that is regrettable, whatever the business justification (which Apple chooses not to delineate).
There is more convenience for purchasing content on an Apple device than any other -- period. Bar none. No device ecosystem is chocked full of as much content that can be purchased more easily.


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If the new policy also results in more reading apps leaving the App Store (Bluefire or txtr in particular, since these are the only iOS apps that license Adobe RMSDK and enable reading of purchased Adobe DRM ebooks on iOS), it will be very regrettable. We need continued competition and options and innovation on all platforms.
Bluefire, textr et al. are part of the pantheon of reading app choices for iOS customers. What reading app choices to kindle owners have? How about Android? There is yet to be MORE choices on Android than iOS.

Bluefire et. al. will simply have to make their money selling their APP or they will have to build up their own web customer base. As Amazon and Barnes and Noble have done.

No reason Bluefire can't still be used for reading library books that use Adobe DRM. Or read Adobe DRM books you've bought from some place else.

There is plenty of competition in the market. You have kindles and nooks and kobos and Sony's and 50 different no-name eInk readers. You have dozens upon dozens of Android based tablets including the excellent Nook Color. Not to mention all the hundreds of millions of smart phones.

All this competition, and no one yet comes even close to having as many choices for reading and buying content as Apple's iOS. As an iOS owner you have it good even if there are some rules of Apple's that you don't like.

You can trust Apple to keep it's place at the top of the heap in content delivery to you, it's customer.

Lee
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:21 AM   #44
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They can do that, but will they want to? How much of the "in-app facility for buying books that redirected the user to Amazon" was part of the reason that they developed the iOS Kindle app in the first place?
Time will tell, I guess. Personally I buy all my Kindle books using the web browser on my iPhone - I find it easier to use than either the "in-app" buying on the iPhone, or the Kindle store on my actual Kindle device.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:07 PM   #45
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I prefer buying my Amazon books on my computer to my Kindle. I buy on my kindle in emergencies only as I am not fond of the interface and the 3G connection is slow in South Africa.

I have ordered a Ipad after reading this thread. Previously I had decided against it as I was under the impression that Apple would chuck the Kindle app off the Ipad. It seems this is not going to happen and some books would be better on the Ipad than the Kindle.

I have no problem not being able to purchase from Amazon from within the Ipad app. I will just buy online. I read a fair amount of stuff on my Kindle that doesn't come from Amazon as it is. Not a problem. All still easier and cheaper than going into a physical book store.
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