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Old 06-09-2011, 07:12 PM   #16
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hey, you weren't here when LB, I and others were being called idiots and worse for even thinking that the issue would be resolved this way. We are entitled to our little happy dance.


Now you all get to fight over who gets to be Hobbes and who is Calvin.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:15 PM   #17
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:22 PM   #18
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Why... people who are in business are in business for a reason... to make money being a primary motivator. Why would they start stirring the pot again when agreements have been reached... agreements that were always likely to be reached by people in business rather than motivated by irrational hatreds. Why would they care if Apple changed the rules mid-race if they've now reached agreements... oh yes, cutting your nose off to spite your face is a really sound business practice...


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I think that all bookstores should pull out of the iOS market and stand their ground. They can certainly frame the debate so that it is clear that Apple is the one who changed the rules mid-race.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:33 PM   #19
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Reading apps can certainly remove the button that launches their storefronts in the browser, and presumably they can include some information on 'How to purchase ebooks', which might well just say 'copy this URL and paste it into the address bar of your browser and then bookmark it', if not 'click this button to install a bookmark on your desktop.' Once that is done it will be nearly as easy to get to the storefront as before, if not easier since you won't need to launch the reader app to get there. Storefronts can also have a web app that you install to Home Screen.

But to the minimal extent that this inconveniences users, it is all due to Apple's policy, not some technology issue that can be blamed on the vendor. It becomes an iOS user experience issue, and one not found on competing platforms. If their goal is to divert more sales to iBookstore, I don't think it will have that effect. To the extent that users understand the issue, it reflects poorly on Apple. So why are they doing this?
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:48 PM   #20
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Reading apps can certainly remove the button that launches their storefronts in the browser, and presumably they can include some information on 'How to purchase ebooks', which might well just say 'copy this URL and paste it into the address bar of your browser and then bookmark it', if not 'click this button to install a bookmark on your desktop.' Once that is done it will be nearly as easy to get to the storefront as before, if not easier since you won't need to launch the reader app to get there. Storefronts can also have a web app that you install to Home Screen.
Hmm, they could just include a start-up guide ebook for using the app that conveniently includes a clickable (tapable?) link to their web store. Nothing Apple could do about that.

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But to the minimal extent that this inconveniences users, it is all due to Apple's policy, not some technology issue that can be blamed on the vendor. It becomes an iOS user experience issue, and one not found on competing platforms. If their goal is to divert more sales to iBookstore, I don't think it will have that effect. To the extent that users understand the issue, it reflects poorly on Apple. So why are they doing this?
Because Apple is greedy. They want their 30% cut. If all Apple had to deal with was small-time fry and not a company as big as Amazon, et. al., they probably would've gotten their way.
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:00 PM   #21
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Today's news is great for somethings like videos, mags or such but I'm wondering how this really changes anything for ebooks. Sure now they can raise the price of the item bought in-app to be more than buying outside the app but for ebooks, if the agency sets the price and the bookseller can't sell it for any other price, then when someone buys a book and Apple takes their 30%, the bookseller still gets nothing. The app still has to support in-app buys and most people will use that as it will be easier than "copy this link to your browser and then buy your book and rerun your app". Seems like Apple still gets Amazon/BN/Kobo/etc. to sell books for them for free.

Guess I'll still have to wait until the end of June to see what happens. Of course in my case it doesn't matter, I can just keep my current apps and they'll still work the old way anyway. Just new users who won't be able to do so.
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:33 PM   #22
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Today's news is great for somethings like videos, mags or such but I'm wondering how this really changes anything for ebooks. Sure now they can raise the price of the item bought in-app to be more than buying outside the app but for ebooks, if the agency sets the price and the bookseller can't sell it for any other price, then when someone buys a book and Apple takes their 30%, the bookseller still gets nothing. The app still has to support in-app buys and most people will use that as it will be easier than "copy this link to your browser and then buy your book and rerun your app". Seems like Apple still gets Amazon/BN/Kobo/etc. to sell books for them for free.

Guess I'll still have to wait until the end of June to see what happens. Of course in my case it doesn't matter, I can just keep my current apps and they'll still work the old way anyway. Just new users who won't be able to do so.
Under the agency model the publishers set the lowest price the book sellers can sell it for.
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:15 PM   #23
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Reading apps can certainly remove the button that launches their storefronts in the browser, and presumably they can include some information on 'How to purchase ebooks', which might well just say 'copy this URL and paste it into the address bar of your browser and then bookmark it', if not 'click this button to install a bookmark on your desktop.' Once that is done it will be nearly as easy to get to the storefront as before, if not easier since you won't need to launch the reader app to get there. Storefronts can also have a web app that you install to Home Screen.

But to the minimal extent that this inconveniences users, it is all due to Apple's policy, not some technology issue that can be blamed on the vendor. It becomes an iOS user experience issue, and one not found on competing platforms. If their goal is to divert more sales to iBookstore, I don't think it will have that effect. To the extent that users understand the issue, it reflects poorly on Apple. So why are they doing this?
The situation will simply be exactly like movies. You can play movies on your iOS devices from either Netflix or Itunes, but you can also buy or rent movies from iTunes. There is no way to rent a movie or subscribe from the Netflix app. Its a pure player app. If you want to subscribe to Netflix, you go on the web. Netflix is totally OK with that, and the number of people using Netflix on iOS devices is growing by leaps and bounds.
Similarly, the ABC TV and HBO Ipad apps are only about playing content. You sign up for HBO through your cable provider.
In short, this model works fine for other media. It can work for ebooks.
As for why Apple is doing this, you should remember that Apple doesn't have to allow third party ebook store/ reader apps on its platform at all. These apps compete directly with its iBookstore, which isn't allowed on dedicated ereader devices. In doing this, Apple will give its home-built app on advantage . From a business standpoint, that just makes sense. No one here objects to Amazon, BN, and Kobo closing their devices to iBooks, or argues that consumers are shortchanged by that.
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:20 PM   #24
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Ah, but Amazon, BN and Kobo aren't the eeeevill Apple... they're just lesser evils...


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No one here objects to Amazon, BN, and Kobo closing their devices to iBooks, or argues that consumers are shortchanged by that.
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:38 PM   #25
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Well, I am just glad Netflix, Zinio and Kindle apps are safe. I use those ALL the time (especially now that I figured out how to sync books across my devices so I can read on three different gadgets and never miss a beat!). If I could not use these apps, the value of my iPad would be diminished for me.
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:52 PM   #26
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Good. Now if they would only mend some of their other heavy-handed ways.
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:23 AM   #27
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Why would they care if Apple changed the rules mid-race if they've now reached agreements...
Because that clearly demonstrates that Apple will change rules again, and again, and again, every time trying to squeeze their partners more and more.
It demonstrates that you can't build your business model reliably around Apple platform.
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:44 AM   #28
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Wow... and no other business/person EVER changes the rules... get in the real world... you do business within existing frameworks and if they change then you adjust... not rocket science...

Oh, wait, it's that nasty Apple again, that's different... Chicken Little time,"The sky is falling..."

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Because that clearly demonstrates that Apple will change rules again, and again, and again, every time trying to squeeze their partners more and more.
It demonstrates that you can't build your business model reliably around Apple platform.
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Old 06-10-2011, 10:05 AM   #29
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Just a thought, doesn't Apple license "1-click" purchasing from Amazon? They couldn't really afford to antagonize Amazon too much...
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:36 PM   #30
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While I agree that the issue was overblown by those who have an emotional hatred for Apple, there is still enough of the new subscription requirement remaining to cause concern for the more reasonable folk.

I think that all bookstores should pull out of the iOS market and stand their ground. They can certainly frame the debate so that it is clear that Apple is the one who changed the rules mid-race.
Let's be clear on what I feel "I told you so". I was and remain confident that Apple is superb in getting support and content for their platform. No one else is close (well, maybe Amazon). This is what Apple does, it's part of their secret sauce that makes them Apple.

I don't agree with everything Apple does. I KNOW Apple p@sses a lot of people off, even it's partners. But I also know that Apple is smart and pragmatic. There is no way it would have been in Apple's best interest to kick Amazon and B&N off their platform. So, I am not claiming I knew HOW the situation would be resolved, but I was confident it would be.

We've actually had posters here claim they wanted to buy a non-Apple tablet BECAUSE they were sure that Apple was going to kick off Amazon and everyone else. That's ABSURD. Other platforms have their own merits, but NO OTHER PLATFORM has the support and the content that Apple has. No one else even comes close. No one else will any time soon.

Just look at iCloud. Amazon and Google could not get the music companies to do what Apple has. It's just one more example in a long long history of this very fact.

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