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Old 10-22-2014, 04:00 AM   #1
webroot
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Argument in favor of DRM

Web is full of people bashing DRM, still DRM is not out probably because a viable alternative DRM not yet exist, I would like to discuss some of sounding points on why DRM will always be here in some or other forms.

1. Other than low cost product such as 9.99$ ebook (Mostly fiction or children s book) or 1.99 $ mp3 who is opting out of DRM, I mean there will be costly textbooks and research books, another question to ask is how much these low cost niche involve in overall ebook sales transaction.

2. DRM can be easily broken is another widespread misconception I have seen, well every encryption can be broken by a skilled hacker but he would probably target popular DRM schemes such as Adobe's etc and then there would be number of other DRM solutions from less known vendor how can a ordinary reader bypass them when no crack is released for them?

3. In most cases ebook tend to be cheaper than paperback/hardcover edition so rating about all kind of DRM inconvenience is simply not in line of logic, as know there was always inconvenience in paperback books that you have to carry the burden.

There are few more...

Any thoughts?
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Old 10-22-2014, 05:57 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by webroot View Post
2. DRM can be easily broken is another widespread misconception I have seen, well every encryption can be broken by a skilled hacker but he would probably target popular DRM schemes such as Adobe's etc and then there would be number of other DRM solutions from less known vendor how can a ordinary reader bypass them when no crack is released for them?
By buying your book from one of the the more popular vendors, whose DRM HAS been broken, instead. Sticking exclusively with a "lesser known vendor" whose DRM hasn't been cracked means your book doesn't sell.
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Old 10-22-2014, 06:35 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by webroot View Post
...

1. Other than low cost product such as 9.99$ ebook (Mostly fiction or children s book) or 1.99 $ mp3 who is opting out of DRM, I mean there will be costly textbooks and research books, another question to ask is how much these low cost niche involve in overall ebook sales transaction.
Hasn't just about all music opted out of DRM (not just "1.99"). I just bought a CD, and I was able to download an MP3, DRM free, immediately (and it was a lot more than $1.99).

Quote:
2. DRM can be easily broken is another widespread misconception I have seen, well every encryption can be broken by a skilled hacker but he would probably target popular DRM schemes such as Adobe's etc and then there would be number of other DRM solutions from less known vendor how can a ordinary reader bypass them when no crack is released for them?
I think every ebook DRM scheme has been broken, except for LRX.

And if it hasn't been broken for your vendor, just buy from someone else and sideload, same difference?
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:07 AM   #4
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By buying your book from one of the the more popular vendors, whose DRM HAS been broken, instead. Sticking exclusively with a "lesser known vendor" whose DRM hasn't been cracked means your book doesn't sell.
I would say that today ebook reader market is not matured to a point and mobile based readers are not upto the mark that makes people stick to a particular device device or app, but suppose in a soon future most ebook readers are good enough that vendor A can release A1, A2 and A3 builds for different platform and reading over them will not be annoying.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:08 AM   #5
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Didn't we just have a thread dedicated to discussing DRM?
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:10 AM   #6
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Hasn't just about all music opted out of DRM (not just "1.99"). I just bought a CD, and I was able to download an MP3, DRM free, immediately (and it was a lot more than $1.99).


I think every ebook DRM scheme has been broken, except for LRX.

And if it hasn't been broken for your vendor, just buy from someone else and sideload, same difference?
I would hear more on this but as per gut feeling say to break a DRM hacker must discover the hidden device key (algo), all vendors have different method for generating their keys, there is no straightforward algorithm for detecting key, that part of work is manual.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by webroot View Post
I would like to discuss some of sounding points on why DRM will always be here in some or other forms.

[snip]

Any thoughts?
Encryption-DRM doesn't appear to provide any benefit to publisher or author (see Baen, Tor, O'Reilly and soon some Simon & Schuster titles).

What makes you think that publishers will continue to fork out for DRM when they see no benefit?

The music industry also seems to show that encryption-DRM provides no benefits. All retail music is now DRM-free.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:30 AM   #8
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Encryption-DRM doesn't appear to provide any benefit to publisher or author (see Baen, Tor, O'Reilly and soon some Simon & Schuster titles).

What makes you think that publishers will continue to fork out for DRM when they see no benefit?

The music industry also seems to show that encryption-DRM provides no benefits. All retail music is now DRM-free.
well my stand is not for all kind of books, cheap books mean low risk you can go DRM free, O'Reilly has created a big brand (by appending their name to book title) that even pirate books ultimately boost their brand name. How many indie publishers would be able to do that? And can anybody tell that every title under O'Reilly is DRM free without a single exception?

My stand is not to take any extreme position like "DRM is bad" or "DRM is all good" i want to know why still drm is alive, do people have reasonable alternative to that other than simply trusting consumers that it wont pirate.

Do we take O'Reilly and those other cases as a over generalization for a rather complex ebook industry? they had their particular situation case thats why they go DRM free should we make this into a thumb rule because we got a real proof?

Last edited by webroot; 10-22-2014 at 07:43 AM. Reason: typos and detail
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webroot View Post
I would say that today ebook reader market is not matured to a point and mobile based readers are not upto the mark that makes people stick to a particular device device or app, but suppose in a soon future most ebook readers are good enough that vendor A can release A1, A2 and A3 builds for different platform and reading over them will not be annoying.
Quite simply put: IF you've decided that your book needs encryption-based DRM (for whatever reason), it will be sold at a vendor that uses Adobe's encryption, or it will be sold at Amazon (with their proprietary encryption), and very likely, it will be sold at both. That's the reality of DRM today. Any other (exclusive) choice of encryption-based DRM will result in said book being niche-only.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:40 AM   #10
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Quite simply put: IF you've decided that your book needs encryption-based DRM (for whatever reason), it will be sold at a vendor that uses Adobe's encryption, or it will be sold at Amazon (with their proprietary encryption), and very likely, it will be sold at both. That's the reality of DRM today. Any other (exclusive) choice of encryption-based DRM will result in said book being niche-only.
Right! so DRM equals ADEPT or Amazon Kindle, atleast that is how it is taken by most folks nowadays. And would you say that everything except childrens books, Fiction and Self help is a niche book?
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:48 AM   #11
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Right! so DRM equals ADEPT or Amazon Kindle, atleast that is how it is taken by most folks nowadays.
Yes. Encryption-based DRM, yes.

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And would you say that everything except childrens books, Fiction and Self help is a niche book?
No I would not.
I would (and thought I already did) say that anything having encryption-based DRM that is not sold by Amazon and/or a vendor using ADEPT ePub DRM is a niche book at best.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 10-22-2014 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:56 AM   #12
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Yes. Encryption-based DRM, yes.


No I would not.
I would say that anything having encryption-based DRM that is not sold by Amazon and/or s vendor using ADEPT ePub DRM is a niche book at best.
Well there will be many encryption based drm provider for sure.

From one angle you seem to indirectly backing the DRM by quoting Amazon's name they have gotten so big mainly because their kindle ecosystem which is not only a awesome reader but a robust hardware proof DRM device. Writers and publishers have peace of mind when publishing there... although here one big DRM is shrinking the market for other DRM vendors just because its natural not to fit many here.
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:01 AM   #13
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...other than simply trusting consumers that it wont pirate.
I think it's the other way around. They have to trust that irrespective of whether DRM exists, people who want a free copy will usually find a way to get one!

It's market driven, the same way the legal retail system is. Supply and demand. For as long as there are punters out there who want a copy of the latest Rowling novel, someone will crack the DRM and distribute it.

Perhaps at one time DRM would have been a deterrent to the average Joe casually copying something for a friend, but is that still the case? Even a quick browse online can provide opportunities for most people to find DRM stripped files, be they games, apps, music or books.

Hmm, is that an argument for or against DRM??
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:10 AM   #14
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And can anybody tell that every title under O'Reilly is DRM free without a single exception?
Yes, and not just O'Reilly's ebooks, but all ebooks sold at their ebook store. http://shop.oreilly.com/category/ebooks.do

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i want to know why still drm is alive, do people have reasonable alternative to that other than simply trusting consumers that it wont pirate.
DRM on ebooks is still alive because the heads of large corporations are reluctant to trust the opinions of those below them. Tor would have gone DRM-free years ago if they hadn't been forbidden by the higher-ups in their parent ocrporation. They've been DRM-free for two years now with no ill effects.

No, there's no reasonable alterative than simply trusting your customers.

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Do we take O'Reilly and those other cases as a over generalization for a rather complex ebook industry? they had their particular situation case thats why they go DRM free should we make this into a thumb rule because we got a real proof?
It's hard to se what more proof is needed that going DRM-free doesn't hurt sales.
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:12 AM   #15
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Well there will be many encryption based drm provider for sure.
No. There really won't. Not many that will be supported by all the popular readers/apps, anyway

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Originally Posted by webroot View Post
From one angle you seem to indirectly backing the DRM by quoting Amazon's name they have gotten so big mainly because their kindle ecosystem which is not only a awesome reader but a robust hardware proof DRM device. Writers and publishers have peace of mind when publishing there... although here one big DRM is shrinking the market for other DRM vendors just because its natural not to fit many here.
You're missing my point entirely.
The vast majority of devices/apps out there NOW that are being used to buy and read ebooks won't be able to read anything that is encrypted using DRM other than Amazon's or Adobe's. Anything sold NOW, that is not able to be read by the vast majority of devices/apps out there NOW, is niche.

So anyone who has any hopes of making money on their DRMed book NOW will be selling it using one or the other (or both) of those encryption-based DRM schemes (as well as others, if they feel so inclined). And both of those DRM-schemes are easily thwarted, NOW.

I'm not saying DRM is right/wrong ... I'm not saying Amazon/Adobe are right/wrong. I'm saying anyone who encrypts their ebook with DRM that precludes it from being sold by Amazon or the usual Adobe ePub vendors is dooming their book to not selling well.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 10-22-2014 at 08:20 AM.
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