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Old 12-27-2010, 02:09 AM   #1
pewterbot9
Edge User
 
Question vfat.img

What a strange subject title, eh?

Anywayz, just got my Pocket Edge Xmas Eve, but I've been perusing these forums for over a week in order to learn as much as I could before it's arrival. So I have some questions about vfat.img, which I understand provides the internal storage for one's data...and which is no longer used, once you switch storage to an external micro SD card (which I did, it's 8G).

So I'm crawling around the system's folders, to discover vfat.img located in two places: one, under folder "fridge"; and the other, under "intstorage". Besides finding "fridge" a rather fun name for a folder, I'm assuming there is only one vfat.img, because they're both 2.5G in size, and were they two files, that would be 1G larger than the internal storage's capacity! (Assuming it's 4G.)

Seems rather wasteful that there is no way at this time, to regain the use of that 2.5G, for additional storage. Will this be possible in some future upgrade? Coming from the old school of PC (when memory was scarce and expensive), I find it barely tolerable to have to toss out a whopping 2.5 gigabytes, just for the sake of utilizing an SD card!

Has anyone technically inclined, looked into the nature of vfat.img, and actually deleted it from the system? I understand one can "root" the device, and I am a longterm Linux advocate (though not a coder), but it's too soon for me to take that leap right now...not when I'm just learning about apps, Android and eInk. (I've never owned a cell phone, don't want one...so this is my first hands-on with apps.)

So, if anyone finds discussing vfat.img issues a fun topic, you might care to chime in before seeking psychiatric help. But if no one else really is interested, I'll understand.

In fact, I understand already! Happy holidays and New Year to everyone else here who's "livin' on the Edge".
 
Old 12-27-2010, 10:44 AM   #2
Gunnerp245
Edge User
 
There are a few enterprising folks; robot, jcase, Chulubor, and kveroneau that can likely answer your questions. The cheapness and availability of memory e.g. ram and hard drives, today's programmers have no inclination to write compact, efficient code.

Last edited by Gunnerp245; 12-29-2010 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Added kveroneau
 
 
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:54 AM   #3
borisb
Edge User
 
kveroneau recently mentioned vfat.img in a post, too...
 
Old 12-28-2010, 05:11 PM   #4
pewterbot9
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerp245 View Post
There are a few enterprising folks; robot, jcase, Chulubor, that can likely answer your questions.
I know, I've read some of their posts on other topics...quite intelligent. I look forward to interesting discussions re. jailbreaking the PE. It's one of those hackolicious devious too tempting to resist!

Quote:
today's programmers have no inclination to write compact, efficient code.
I had hoped that with the advent of cell phones and other miniaturized mobile devices such as GPS, this would've changed, and inspired renewed interest in tight code. *sigh*
 
Old 12-28-2010, 05:44 PM   #5
robot
Edge User
 
I don't have EE near by, but as far as remember, vfat is an image of internal sdcard, and it's mounted and symlinked.
In easy words, physically there's only one vfat.img, but it content (or name) can be displayed under other locations.

There's nothing to remove from internal memory, except video tutorials (*.mp4, *.avi files)

As for compact code, there's 2 positions. If someone programming for mass market, he must to write code as fast as possible, so his program will be sucks, but he will outrun the competitors and earn more money. If someone programming for serious company, he must to write an optimised code, 'cos in case of any problem he will lost the job, and the company by itself lost big money. I'm usually programming using the second way. But in terms of games, or apps for new market (like android) programmers used the 1st way are the winners. Sadly, but it' true.
 
Old 12-28-2010, 06:35 PM   #6
pewterbot9
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by borisb View Post
kveroneau recently mentioned vfat.img in a post, too...
Yes, thanks, I've read them a few days ago, there are three threads so far, that discuss vfat.img. But not in any depth yet, seeing as the product and this forum, is so new. I'm sure that vfat.img is a useless file right now, and that once I root my PE, I'll be able to delete it w/o harm, and even restore it, should I desire. At the very least, the 2.5G regained, will be very handy as extra storage space.

I am however, quite curious why another vfat.img is displayed under "/fridge". My guess is that it's simply a link to the real vfat.img located under "/intstorage". But that's all it is right now...a guess. Yet it does show itself to be a real file 2.5G in size! Which if true, means that internal storage is more than 4 G.

Well, at this point in time, I cannot view all the system files and folders in more than just a rudimentary way. For future reference to anyone who's interested:

- I'd like to know the purpose of root folder "fridge", which seems to be a duplicate copy of "intstorage". Perhaps fridge is a backup?

- What is the actual size of the system storage chip (not just the user data, but the Android OS too).

- Okay, "intsdcard" is clearly where internal data is storage, unless you switch to external storage via a micro SD card. But there is also "extsdcard" under /root, which is empty, and "intstorage" which contains vfat.img and subfolder ".edge".

I pretty much grasp the remaining folders' use, seeing as I am a Linux advocate. In these other folders, there seems to be needless redundancy, thus potential to free up additional storage space. Though of course I could be wrong; I need to learn more about Android's particular behavior, esp. with the Pocket Edge device. But the one big question that stands is this:

There are /two/ vfat.img files listed in the system folders...each 2.5G in size. Those two files alone equal 5G...yet the Entoruage Edge fact sheet claims a total 4G internal memory!

Anywayz, thanks for reading this. I've only had my PE for less than four days, so please forgive my precocious enthusiasm.

Last edited by pewterbot9; 12-28-2010 at 06:37 PM.
 
Old 12-28-2010, 06:44 PM   #7
pewterbot9
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot View Post
I don't have EE near by, but as far as remember, vfat is an image of internal sdcard, and it's mounted and symlinked.
As I suspected. Thanks, robot!

Quote:
As for compact code, there's 2 positions.
Points very well made, especially regarding the pressure on coders to churn out those teensy apps ahead of the competition. And glad to know that you have extensive background in programming elegance. For the record: I have rather broad knowledge of Linux, but am not a programmer. IOW: I'm a savvy Linux advocate of many years, and enjoy the hacker culture immensely.
 
Old 12-29-2010, 09:23 AM   #8
kenjennings
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pewterbot9 View Post
I had hoped that with the advent of cell phones and other miniaturized mobile devices such as GPS, this would've changed, and inspired renewed interest in tight code. *sigh*
Ah, nope. Cellphones being released today have faster processors and more memory than a decent computer ten years ago. My first laptop (HP N5295 from 2000, 850Mhz CPU, 256M RAM) was spiffy then, but only manages to be useful now, because its running linux. Software is continuously being loaded down with more and more pointless bells, whistles, bling, glitz, not to mention bad object oriented design, bloating programs and making them run slower.

I still have an Amiga (66Mhz CPU, 32M RAM, yes, that Megahertz and Megabytes) that works perfectly well for the usual desktop activities -- word processing, desktop publishing, web browsing, graphics editing, etc. Good software design makes a big difference.
 
Old 12-29-2010, 10:15 AM   #9
Gunnerp245
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjennings View Post
...Amiga (66Mhz CPU, 32M RAM, yes, that Megahertz and Megabytes).
I had the 2000 with the Video Toaster, long time ago.
 
Old 12-29-2010, 01:41 PM   #10
kveroneau
Edge User
 
Both vfat.img's are the exact same, and ARE NOT symlinks. However, deleting one will delete the other. Here's why:

ubi:storage is mounted in two places, /fridge and /intstorage. Both mountpoints use the same block device(storage device), ubi:storage.

Due to the nature of how enTourage partitioned the NAND on the Pocket eDGe(may also apply to the full-size version as well), the internal storage cannot easily be used for normal storage without some extra work. Namely, copying everything from /data into /intstorage, then making the system at boot mount ubi:storage on /data instead of ubi:userdata mounting on /data.

By default, /data and /system NAND partitions are both 329288KB in size. /system is basically the firmware which is upgraded when the device is updated, along with a few ramdisk images. /data is not changed during an update, as it stores user settings and downloaded apps. This applies to Android on phones as well.

If you really want to utilize the ubi:storage as /data, you can download the latest update.zip and edit some of the start-up scripts to change the mountpoints. This has not been tested and I am not totally sure what the end effect will be, it may work, or it may cause problems, if the system expects it a specific way. If you try this, be sure to have an official update.zip handy to flash back the original manufacturer image. On the page you can download the update.zip, it will tell you how to manually update using a update.zip file.

Hope this information helps.

Last edited by kveroneau; 12-29-2010 at 01:42 PM. Reason: copying not moving
 
Old 12-29-2010, 07:16 PM   #11
pewterbot9
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kveroneau View Post
Both vfat.img's are the exact same, and ARE NOT symlinks. However, deleting one will delete the other.

<snip>

If you really want to utilize the ubi:storage
Thanks for your detailed clarification, kyeroneau...I grasp the situation.

Here's another question I now have, after installing Overdrive Media Console (OMC), and downloading my first ebook:

Among the options is to download the ebook either to "Memory Card," or to "Device Storage." Naturally I assumed Memory Card would be grayed out or not even visible, since I set up my PE to save all data to my microSD.

However, that was not the case at all: Memory Card option was active, and I selected it w/o a hitch...OMC did not blink an eye (so to speak). Assuming my OMC data is now being stored on internal memory, that "lost" 2.5 gigs has been restored to actual use, no longer wasted.

Am I correct in my assumption? TIA & HNY2011.

Last edited by pewterbot9; 12-29-2010 at 07:47 PM.
 
Old 12-29-2010, 07:41 PM   #12
pewterbot9
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjennings View Post
Ah, nope. Cellphones being released today have faster processors and more memory than a decent computer ten years ago.
I didn't take that into account, equating "miniaturization" with diminutive memory is most certainly not the case. Even tiny devices have big memory!

Quote:
Software is continuously being loaded down with more and more pointless bells, whistles, bling, glitz, not to mention bad object oriented design, bloating programs and making them run slower.
Stop the E-world, I wanna get off! Surely there is some community of tight-code advocates out there, who share efficient programs and tightly coded scripts? Seems that this current epidemic of bloat is not limited to meat-space dietary issues.

Quote:
still have an Amiga (66Mhz CPU, 32M RAM, yes, that Megahertz and Megabytes)
I think that's very kewl, you have such an antique PC in your habitat. My first PC was a "Compaq Luggable"...then, Tandy 1000...then a series of generic systems purchased from Chinese family-owned local shops. And now, I have no more real desktop systems...instead, an Acer 16" laptop, a Hannsnote netbook, a Gateway subnotebook, and lastly (and most recently) this equisite Pocket Edge device.

All but the latter are refurbished, and in excellent condition...all purchased online from CompUSA, which has a very high rating of quality and customer satisfaction. Very important to me for many reasons, but especially because I live on a low income. These three laptops I've reconfigured for dualboot: Windoze and Linux Mint.

I am also a big fan BTW, of abandonware -- for games mostly, but sometimes other warez too. For which reason I need to keep Windoze in my reality. I use Linux for just about everything else.

Cheerz!

Last edited by pewterbot9; 12-29-2010 at 07:51 PM.
 
 

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