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Old 05-19-2010, 04:19 AM   #1
robot
Edge User
 
Ability to run android on e-ink side.

As far as I understand there's many problems with android working with 2 displays.

So probably it will be much faster (and easy to implement) to make an option to run Android OS on e-ink screen only (without using LCD).

It will allow to implement many other features which we asked for (e-ink web browser, working with DOCS-to-GO using e-ink e.t.c.). And also we will be able to create android application for e-ink without the need for e-ink SDK. Which also speed up proccess of developing of new application.

Also it will probably give us longer battery life (I'm thinking about 10 hours with WI-FI and 20 hours withot WIFI).
 
Old 05-19-2010, 04:24 AM   #2
robot
Edge User
 
To make it clear. I'm not talking about an application on e-ink side, but entire android system to run on e-ink.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 09:38 AM   #3
fgruber
Edge User
 
It would be useful if we had the option of opening an arbitrary android application on the eink side. This would give us the kindle app, the barnes and noble app, djvu etc on eink.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 10:33 AM   #4
robot
Edge User
 
Ok, probably someone who have big expirience with programming for Android will explain things better.., but for now, as far as I understand:

1. Android doesn't support multiple-displays. So it can work only with one display (on eDGe android use LCD, and eink used by separated linux software). Other developers use different tricks to use 2 displays with android. For example NooK use one virtual screen (consists from 2 area, 1st for LCD screen and 2nd for eink) which than rendered on both displays. On the other hand AlexReader used LCD screen for android, and to display image on eink they use something like virtual printer which transfer content from android to eink screen.

2. Becouse of Android doesn't support dual displays there's no easy ways to run an application on separated screen. So if you run Android on LCD -- all apps will use LCD only. If you run Android on e-ink -- all apps will use e-ink only.

3. Currently I don't know if there's a way to switch displays used by android without rebooting. If it's possible, than probably we will have ability to choose current display used by android, and run application using current display. But if not, there's absolutly no way to use android apps without modifications (apps rewriting).

4. But if there will be an option to choose active display for android (while booting) there will be no problems with apps (exclude screen update speed, which is not critical for many apps). So you will get immidiate support of current apps on e-ink. That means that you can browsing internet, read html, djvu, docs, fb2, comics e.t.c. on e-ink screen, writing on e-ink using USB keyboard, working with DOCStoGO,

5. It takes month to rewrite an apps to support e-ink screen. It takes few lines of code (I mean several hours of programming and testing) to make e-ink primary android display. So you can wait 2 month for browser on e-ink, or you can wait several days and get this+many other apps on e-ink screen. What will be your choise?

borisb, you can use LCD as e-ink then (i mean PDF and Journal), or as keyboard, or turnit off to save battery, or you can use camera (located on LCD), and control camera from e-ink side (placing edge like reverted V on table, facing cam to an object, while controlling or reading on e-ink side). e.t.c. Possibilities are endless.


So what you prefer: to get all this features in next few weeks , or waiting at least several monthes more while developers adapting apps one by one?
 
Old 05-19-2010, 11:00 AM   #5
kenjennings
Edge User
 
I prefer well-written apps that intelligently integrate both screens, rather than just flipping between either-or for android. But that's me.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 11:44 AM   #6
robot
Edge User
 
One doesn't exclude another So why waiting for "apps that intelligently integrate both screens" which will requre long time to program (and note that programmers need SDK first, but it's 4 month after sales start but SDK still wasn't released and no one know when it will be awailable) ?
 
Old 05-19-2010, 11:48 AM   #7
fgruber
Edge User
 
I doubt that the market for applications optimized for dual screen is large enough for programmers to make the changes.

That's why it would be very useful to find a way to simply run an arbitrary application in the e-ink. How about having 2 android running? One of the eink and one for the LCD? Anyways I have no android programming experience so it is not for me to say what is possible and what is not.



Quote:
Originally Posted by robot View Post
Ok, probably someone who have big expirience with programming for Android will explain things better.., but for now, as far as I understand:

1. Android doesn't support multiple-displays. So it can work only with one display (on eDGe android use LCD, and eink used by separated linux software). Other developers use different tricks to use 2 displays with android. For example NooK use one virtual screen (consists from 2 area, 1st for LCD screen and 2nd for eink) which than rendered on both displays. On the other hand AlexReader used LCD screen for android, and to display image on eink they use something like virtual printer which transfer content from android to eink screen.

2. Becouse of Android doesn't support dual displays there's no easy ways to run an application on separated screen. So if you run Android on LCD -- all apps will use LCD only. If you run Android on e-ink -- all apps will use e-ink only.

3. Currently I don't know if there's a way to switch displays used by android without rebooting. If it's possible, than probably we will have ability to choose current display used by android, and run application using current display. But if not, there's absolutly no way to use android apps without modifications (apps rewriting).

4. But if there will be an option to choose active display for android (while booting) there will be no problems with apps (exclude screen update speed, which is not critical for many apps). So you will get immidiate support of current apps on e-ink. That means that you can browsing internet, read html, djvu, docs, fb2, comics e.t.c. on e-ink screen, writing on e-ink using USB keyboard, working with DOCStoGO,

5. It takes month to rewrite an apps to support e-ink screen. It takes few lines of code (I mean several hours of programming and testing) to make e-ink primary android display. So you can wait 2 month for browser on e-ink, or you can wait several days and get this+many other apps on e-ink screen. What will be your choise?

borisb, you can use LCD as e-ink then (i mean PDF and Journal), or as keyboard, or turnit off to save battery, or you can use camera (located on LCD), and control camera from e-ink side (placing edge like reverted V on table, facing cam to an object, while controlling or reading on e-ink side). e.t.c. Possibilities are endless.


So what you prefer: to get all this features in next few weeks , or waiting at least several monthes more while developers adapting apps one by one?
 
Old 05-19-2010, 12:25 PM   #8
StevenP
Edge User
 
I like this idea.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 12:52 PM   #9
robot
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fgruber View Post
I doubt that the market for applications optimized for dual screen is large enough for programmers to make the changes.

That's why it would be very useful to find a way to simply run an arbitrary application in the e-ink. How about having 2 android running? One of the eink and one for the LCD? Anyways I have no android programming experience so it is not for me to say what is possible and what is not.
lol, Iphone (ipad+ipod) has more than 15mln of users, android about (at least 3 time less) 5mln users, as for the eDGe (which is the only real double display device) there's less then 10000 users total. It's really nothing in terms of apps market. Even amazon's Kindle (more than 1mln users) is more interesting for me (as for developer).

As for two androids on one device -- it's impossible. But it's possible to rewrite android OS to support several displays, but it will take about 1 year. Are you ready to wait such long?
 
Old 05-21-2010, 11:31 AM   #10
vicinc
Edge User
 
you do not need android on e-ink screen, but ability to dump any screen on the LCD to e-ink which should be easy with the e-ink sdk. this was point one on my now famous wish list. Press home button, then select transfer to e-ink. what do you think?
 
Old 05-21-2010, 11:32 AM   #11
vicinc
Edge User
 
btw, AlexReader is a better software real 2 screen device
 
Old 05-21-2010, 12:43 PM   #12
robot
Edge User
 
It's summer time. And this sunny days give us another reason for android on e-ink screen. LCD is not visible in direct sun light. But you steel can use e-ink screen on the beach

vicinc the sync button is the good things, but you will not be able to unteract with the image on e-ink. So you'll need to continuesly swith from LCD to EINK and vise versa.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 01:04 PM   #13
vicinc
Edge User
 
change the lcd screen to a pixel qi screen that is visible in bright light, but still not ok for reading. Pixel qi is releasing screens for major laptops as DIY replacement kits. we should lobby for one for our device. imagine this!! far better than a ipad than. i hope entourage will think to this for eDGe MK3. Or we could set a eDGe mod shop to customize them (kind of AMG - Mercedes customisation), screen upgraded to pixel qi, soft improved?!
 
Old 05-21-2010, 01:05 PM   #14
vicinc
Edge User
 
http://www.liliputing.com/2010/03/di...ming-soon.html
 
Old 05-21-2010, 01:05 PM   #15
vicinc
Edge User
 
They should employ me as consultant, isn't it?
 
 

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